Uhh... The old government wanted us to leave too... And the new government of Iraq has always wanted us to leave. And if memory serves me correctly the new government of Viet Nam really wanted us to leave too. And man was that ever a victory!

I'm thinking maybe you are spinning so hard and fast that the centrifigal force just flung the meaning of the word victory right out of your head...

Oh wait a minute... I get it. In the "I am the master of low expectations" world of Bush, victory means whatever you want it to, even graciously taking credit for the victory of those who seek to get rid of us in achieving that very thing.

AN ILLUSION... or should I say delusion. In the centuries of that region's history, stability has been an ellusive commodity.

The old government in Iraq was Saddam. We got rid of him and helped the people to set up a new government. President Bush said we would stay until the new government wanted us to leave. That time has come. Victory can be declared. Long live the red, white and blue.

Depends on the def of a new government...the one we support/install or one installed by the population with out our input? We have a history of proping up govs we feel will be to our benefit.

Well, the people of Iraq did not elected the man the US choose as their President. So I guess one can honestly say the government of Iraq has been chosen by the people of Iraq and not the US.

Not quite a good analogy because in war we have an enemy working against us. In the cartoon strip, the orphanage and retirement home were not jumping out in front of the car.

We first went into Iraq because of bad intelligence that Saddam Hussein was responsible for. He successfully convince the world intelligence community that he had WMDs. He alone could have convinced the world otherwise within a short time after the ceasefire of the first Gulf War.

Secondly, much of the blood shed in Iraq was caused by insurgents. Had the insurgents not tried to drive the US out, the Iraqi governmet would have been set up quicker and the US troops would already be gone.

The US did make a lot of errors but errors are always made during war.