No human caused the flood - broke up the fountains of the deep - opened up the windows of heaven.

No human rained fire on Sodom and Gomorrah after sending Angels to warn Lot and drag him by force out of the city.

No human is seen in Rev 19 doing anything but fighting against the coming armies of heaven.

No human creates the lake of fire in Rev 20 and then jumps in.

In 2Peter 3 God claims to be the one who destroyed "the world that then was" by a flood and God claims to be the one who will once again destroy the world - this time by fire.

The humans of Abraham's day did not "invite his descendants" back in 400 years to take over their lands. Even Israel did not cause the walls of Jericho to fall. This was God and according to Lev 18 the sins of the nations reached a point - a limit beyond which he would not allow them to continue.


Ultimately God is in charge and is to blame for how bad things get if He does not set some limit - for He still claims that kings rule by his permission. The lesson of Daniel 2 is that God - not man ultimately reigns over history placing a boundary on the wickedness of man.

Free will is the thing God appears to value most in his Kingdom -- but He has shown time after time that He sets a limit on the degree of damage that free-will beings are allowed to cause in persuit of bad choices.

in Christ,

Bob

This world is fallen. It's coming apart at the seams and mankind isn't helping. So it's hard to say how much we cause our own destruction. However, we know that our earth kills. We see it in hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, famine, land slides, volcanoes, lighting, hail, toxic rain, etc.



I understand your meaning, but if God was fully in charge Lucifer would not be the lord of the world! There would be no death...no sin, etc....

Yes, God sets limits....He has put the burden of sin on earthly governments, but not to stop sin, rather to slow down the decaying process. But ultimately God is not at fault. This is what the judgment will reveal.

Certainly there are local disasters.

But in the examples given in this post at this link -

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthrea...the_#Post189094

- God is claiming the credit and in cases like world wide flood or fire and brimstone rained on Sodom or the fall of Jericho or the ground swallowing up Korah and his followers -- nobody has made a case that "man caused that" not from science, not from scripture, not from logic that I know of.







Good point - but my argument is not Calvinism it is the Arminian argument that God is ultimately sovereign over all yet within limits that HE sets -- creates a free will system that allows for good and bad choices along with their natural consequences and supernatural judgments.

So God created the free will system for both Lucifer and Gabriel fully knowing what Lucifer would choose "one day".

Then God limited Lucifer -- kicking him out of heaven rather than letting him stay and base is rebellion from heaven for all this time.

Limiting Lucifer to the tree of knowledge rather than letting him chase down Adam and Eve.

We see limits in Job where Satan complains that God has set a barrier around Job so that he can not get to him.

Even in our sinful fallen context God is sovereignly setting up the ground rules - setting limits.

Notice what the demons say to Christ "have you come to torment us before the time"?

There is a system of order and rules, boundaries and limits set by the Sovereign of the universe EVEN in the context of a fallen planet Earth.

in Christ,

Bob

Mankind is sinful....the wages of sin is death. As EGW states, "God destroys no man, man destroys himself"



Maybe you can name them off since you seem to know it all? As I look around I see death every where. I see a planet under lucifer's control. Yes, God limits that control, but only as long as men cooperate with Him. Why? God doesn't force Himself on anyone.

But God's doesn't kill....Sin kills. The wages of sin is death....

At this link I give a number of irrefutable Bible examples of God acting -- doing things man is incapable of doing -- no matter how wicked one wants to imagine man to be.


http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthrea...the_#Post189094

As for Ellen White -- she calls it "God's strange act".

in Christ,

Bob

To those who desire to think outside the box of traditional thought, I give you "Light on the dark side of God". This is a free copy. Download and read:

Light on the dark side of God