How many of you heard Dr. Ford's talk on "The Theory of the Forensic Atonement in Light of the Christian Gospel in a packed Adventist Church, the Loma Linda Campus Hill Church in Loma Linda, California. And at the second talk, presented in the evening, which was entitled "This I Believe." ???

AT describes the following: "Following dialogue among Dr. Ford, the moderator, and the responders, a series of written questions from the audience were addressed. It was just a matter of time until Glacier View was brought up. The audience question asked whether the General Conference of the Adventist Church had ever apologized for controversially expelling him from ministry and teaching in the Adventist church in 1980 following his critique of the investigative judgment doctrine. Dr. Ford responded that the Catholic Church has made many apologies, but the Adventist Church does not apologize."

This brings up an important issue ... Does the Adventist Church issue apologizes for errors they make?

How about yourself?

The important thing to remember is that we view things from only one perspective we can... and it's our perspective. I'm sure that in our own mind we are right... that's the position that we assume.

Life would kind of be uncertain if we are living assuming that we are wrong. Now multiply this by ten when you are dealing with religious hierarchy. I don't think they would be in the position that they are by admitting their wrongs, and that's the unfortunate truth. We don't see many modern "Confessions" by modern st. Augustines... because we are living in a culture where we constantly have to "market ourselves" by presenting ourselves in a better light than we are.

If it's true for ordinary people like you and I, I don't think it's any less true when it comes to church leaders, who are ordinary people in important positions.

I understand Ford's bitter feelings... yet would you expect any different? Would you expect the church agree with one scholar discarding a hundred years of the traditional teachings of a prophet? I would not expect this to happen, whether he was right or wrong... which to me only time will tell.

I don't find the idea behind the investigative judgment to be so important that we bicker about it, instead of spending that valuable time of finding new and creative ways of introducing people to God.

Desmond Ford wants an apology. Good one. I want an apology from Desmond Ford for perverting the gospel of Christ and for leading people into the darkness of New Theology. Because of him and his protégé, Jack Sequeira, my brethren have been seduced and now they go about like Krishna Hindus who think they have found enlightenment. They think they have found a shortcut to understand things and to being ahead of the game. They think they see things more clearly than everyone else, and now they have a sense of purpose to "enlighten" the whole SDA church, when really they are being led by seducing spirits.

They could be building on the foundation already set, but instead, they entice people to their own new foundation. They could be focusing their time and attention on getting the message that we have, to the world, but instead they are trying to concoct a new message and they are forever focused on Adventists, not the world. They dwell in darkness, and instead of coming to the light, just keep coming up with more and more absurd new interpretations that only mangle and mutilate every doctrine of Christianity.

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Did people come up with New Theology? No. It comes from the Devil. How do we know? Motive. It is the Devil that wants us to sin, and this doctrine teaches that we can't escape from the hold of sin, so now we can breath a sigh of relief and just give in to temptation instead of fighting it. That's not the work of Jesus.



If the Lord starts casting out devils in the church now, we would discover them to be demoniacs who are seduced by New Theology.

Some good points Sir.

I was in the same graduation class as Des. At that time of his life he was a great speaker. When it was announced that Des had worship (or any other meeting), the students would flock to it. He taught the message that we have always believed -- and he put it in simple terms. We all knew that Des had a wonderful future ahead of him.

Des married -- but it was not too many years down the track that his wife passed away. I had lost personal touch with him at that stage. He later remarried, and it seemed to me that it was not that long afterwards that he seemed to go "off the track" and preach false doctrine. He seems to have turned his back on teachings, such as the "day for a year" principle in interpreting prophecy -- a principle that has been proved to be correct. And that was only the beginning of his false teachings. He turned his back on the Spirit of Prophecy.

No, the church has nothing to apologise about to Des. Des has turned his back on truth, and taken many of his college colleagues with him. Some have come back to the church, but not to ministry. This Division is still recovering from the effects of Des.

He is now in his eighties, so he is not likely to admit his mistake -- it appears that the devil is still using him to draw souls sway from the truth. That is sad -- but we owe him no apology!!

Beryl

Thanks for the insight, Beryl. I appreciate it.

I agree with that, Beryl. I've studied Des's books and used to believe in a lot that he taught. I left PUC for LLU shortly before he began to teach at PUC.

He confused a lot of people about the Investigative Judgment and caused many to lose faith in Ellen White and to drop out of the church. For me, it doesn't seem like good fruit.

In Des' defense, and I am not saying that I agree with all that he has said, I wll say that he did much to shake up the established theology of the time. And to firm foundations and clarify some.

Something that many of you have seem to forget....


PS- I was there. I saw what happened...and the church treated Des pretty badly..and it does owe him an appology for treating him badly.

Thanks Neil.

As Mrs. White says ... Those who have the truth need not fear investigation.