When i was sick and asked God to heal me, he did nothing,
When things were going out of hand (addictions), he did nothing to stop me
When i asked God to take away my doubts about atheism, he didn t do anything,

I geuss i have become a non-believer. Christianity was a plot planned ages ago to control the masses. That s why the prophecies came true. Maybe Budhism is the true religion, i don t know. I don t know anything anymore. All i know is that i am lost and i will never be able to get myself out of this position, so i don t take life seriously anymore. Lalala let s all just get nuked, when i go, i go with a smile, because it s a finish after a long mile called life.

I ll become the world leader of the new democratic world order. i know i am talkin b llsh t right now, i don t care. bye bye friends, say goodnight to the bad guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdrMOttV_s&feature=related

Others here will differ dramatically with me on this one, but for me I find it a lot easier to stay close to God if I don't expect him to do anything I ask. If I ask and don't receive (which is what happens), then I get angry, but not asking... is just better. It doesn't fit what the Bible says about asking, but it seems like the only way to go.

I do sometimes wonder how, if when we ask God says 'yes', 'no' or 'wait', for inscrutable reasons, we would be able to distinguish that from God not answering at all...

Why do we want, or think we ought to, stay close to God?

I am asking that question in response to what Bravus wrote....and I think his wondering "I do sometimes wonder how, if when we ask God says 'yes', 'no' or 'wait', for inscrutable reasons, we would be able to distinguish that from God not answering at all..." is something we could all relate to. At least some time in our lives, if we are being honest with ourselves.

Can the answer to that question help TruthSeeker?

Do we have the right to expect that God will answer all our requests (in whichever way) ?

Look, the way i see it, we can always rationalise arguments for God not answering our prayers. Right now, i am sick, not able to exercise, feels like i am dying because of fever. I wish it would kill me but unfortunately God wants me to suffer a little longer. If i would be able to exercise i wouldn t feel so depressed right now. This depression is causing morally degrading behaviour i cannot talk about because i don t view this behaviour as a part of my inner being. The fact is that i asked God to help me, every day and night i begged. I know i ain t perfect, but according to the bible God saves persons even when they are still living in sin. I don t have intentions to keep on sinning forever, but i cannot do this on my own strength. So is it wrong to expect God to take away my fever so i can live a physical and mental healthier life? Of course not, that is ludacris. The only times in life when i was happy, was when i pulled power out of my own inner strength. I don t really believe in institutionalised Christianity anymore. It is just a fabrication for ignorant people to dominate the masses, robbing them of spiritual and material wellbeing. Theoretically the great controversy makes so much sense of this world, but practically things don t make sense. Life sucks when you are dependant on the biblical God who is such a selfish being in essence according to the scriptures. A while ago i had some troubles with my foot, i asked Jesus to help me so i could train. Nothing happened. So i asked Budha and it started to disappear immediately. Maybe Budhism has the truth.

Dare to be stupid

That is what your problem is, Truthseeker...no humor in your life...

And you haven't been following all the advice we gave you last time, did you...Talk....talk.....talk....

Instead, you want the world to revolve around you...
and it ain't gonna....

So, whatcha gonna do? Why don't you go and do something really stupid, say like, help out in a homeless shelter or take $40 dollars and get $2 bills and give them out to various people, just to see the reaction you get.....You could go to church school and see if you can help someone to read better...Teachers all need that type of help...

Just go do something really stupid like help someone... No one does that sort of thing anymore...

Just remember, truthseeker, there is more than one power in the universe who answers prayers.

But who do you want answering your prayers? I only want One.

Truthseeker, when you cannot pray, we can pray for you :)

You have come to the place where you are lacking faith. But consider what happens when a people have no faith.

You are in a dark place right now. If you would, God's Word can be a comfort. I don't know what your path has been up until now, but do not lose hope. Hope will give you courage

Thank you for continuing to visit us! I hope that you can find friendship here in your time of despair

What ever you do, get out of focusing on yourself and focus on something outside of your self.....

pray....move the prayers outside of yourself...Pray for your parents, your teachers, your friends,

go do something for others,....

come back here and share what you did...

truthseeker Neil has given some very good advise. I've also read in EGW writings and some others, that doing for others instead of feeling sorry for your self is some of the best medicine that you can get.

pk

Good Post Bravus. I agree. God will bless us spiritually through His Spirit. But I do not believe the promises were meant for material matters. Most of our prayers are meant to be answered by ourselves. I can provide the EGW quotes for that if interested.

The Great Controversy does not allow for God to hand out blessings. Satan would cry foul and the trial would shift in Satan's favor.

No. Getting our prayers answered would spoil us.

So, if you ask for things in prayers ... Don't expect an answer ... find the answer in Christ.

Truthseeker .... It is so good to see you back. I'm sorry you are not feeling well. Let's hope for a better day ahead. But to speak of your comment below ... I would like to offer you hope.



Yes. That is just what He does TruthSeeker. And we are ALL living in sin. But He is faithful and just to both forgive and forget and to help.

I ain't listening to no demons...And I ain't listening to what THEY are doing....

So, what are YOU doing? What have you physically done?

[video:myspace]http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=38913413[/video]


Get up off that thang and go do something...Quit listening to those demons ..... MOVE!





















Watcha doing down here...get up off that thang and get out of here and move!

Truthseeker,
Faith is a gift given by God that becomes an individual journey and is dependent upon a principle excercised for the sake of others instead of ourselves. The promise is for all who willingly submit to the Giver of the gift.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 KJV

"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." Romans 10:17 NASB

"Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]" Galatians 3:2 AMP

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"
Luke 11:13 KJV

"...the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law that can bring a charge]." Galatians 5:22,23 AMP parenthesis &
brackets theirs.
Regards!

Each day when I pass from room to room I praise God for how He has spoiled me. None of the things I now enjoy are a result of deserved favor. Much of my earlier life was one of working at what I didn't enjoy. This has obviously affected how I view enjoyable activety now. Also the fact that I now have the "privilege" of viewing a multitude of people in the world who suffer under horrendous and seemingly intolerable conditions. It also has made a difference in why and how I put forth effort to give others some of the same joy I experience. Plus making some of the Word mean a great deal more to me than it has at certain times in the past.

" Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity." John 12:25 NLT

"He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.
Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. " John 6:65-68 TNIV

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 KJV
Blessings!

You must lead a really sheltered life, Neil. Or do I read a little sarcasm there?
This morning I was talking to someone, recounting the amount of things I was constantly walking on, sitting on, eating, living under, turning on, listening to and viewing, that brought joy to my life, in which I had absolutely no gift for providing for myself.
I wonder how many unbelievers are responsible for the good things I enjoy, people who often haven't met Jesus on a personal level. Is there ever any time when we aren't beholden to someone we'll never get a chance to give a leg up except in another person who Jesus providentially brings us into contact.

"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?" Romans 8:31 NASB
Regards!

And BTW, no other entity you might serve, be it self or lifeless statues, none can make this statement about themself.

"....God is love." 1 John 4:8 KJV

Hi Truthseeker007,

I am new here and am very glad to see your post. In one of them you said, "Right now, i am sick, not able to exercise, feels like i am dying because of fever. I wish it would kill me but unfortunately God wants me to suffer a little longer. If i would be able to exercise i wouldn t feel so depressed right now."

Someone said something about getting out and helping someone, but it appears from what you have written that this is not an option. Is that correct? I agree that the best medicine for depression is for you to find someone to help, but if you cannot get about then there seems only one thing you can do for someone else. That is to find someone who needs your prayers.

One way to do that is to listen. I work at a local hospital and almost every day, several times a day, there is a helicopter taking someone someplace or bringing someone who is very bad off to our hospital. If you cannot get outside then just listen for the helicopters in your area and when you hear one pray for the person that they are trying to help. Pray for the crew too; some are flying the chopper, some are caring for the person in need. Ask God to give them wisdom and skill so that the patient can get better and ask Him to do it in such a way that God will be glorified.

Maybe you know of someone (a friend?) who needs your prayers. Ask God to help them. And while you are talking to God ask Him to let you see what He is doing in your friend's life so that your own faith can grow.

God is very real, but He always waits for one thing. He wants us to really trust Him so sometimes He will wait until we are really down and can see NO other hope before He actually helps us. That's when you and I will actually let Him do stuff, in and for us. Things which we cannot do for ourselves, but really want to change.

In fact, you said, "i cannot do this on my own strength." and you're exactly right. None of us can. When we give up and let God do it, that's when things actually start to change.

I have studied this and put it all into a set of steps you can take to become a true, totally dedicated Christian. Are you ready? It seems to me that this is exactly what you are wanting, so check it out: http://www.bibletimelines.org/framedsteps.html

Blessings,
Dan

Greetings again, You wrote, "they will tell you to commit suicide because it will transport my soul to a better place. This is the only positive thing they ever did..." Odd that these demons want you to be in a better place and at the same time want to destroy you. Don't listen to them. They lie, just as you said.

"You do not have, because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly...." Ja 4:3.

Gerry

I agree with Neil. Quit listening to demons. They only will tell you what you want to hear.....until you try to get away from them after having joined their *cause.* GET AWAY NOW!!!!!!

I know it's Scripture, Gerry, but that's *really* unhelpful. It's called 'blaming the victim'. God has made certain promises, yet somehow if he fails to come through on those promises, it's *always* our fault? Sounds very much like an abusive relationship.

It's true that God has made certain promises but what about the conditions?

If we fail to follow the conditions of answered prayer, how can we justly say it's God who isn't coming through on his promises?

Agreed. But I am speaking as someone whose wife was sexually abused by her father, and that has had major consequences for her life and our life together. She has been praying for healing for 30 years, fulfilling all the conditions as far as we can understand, all of that... and nothing. Maybe there is an explanation, maybe there's a reason, but to continue to believe that God has the power to make this right but chooses not to is to make it very hard to keep rationalising the idea that God is love. I guess what we've come to is the idea that God has the power to do it but for some reason - perhaps what Redwood said about the rules of the Great Controversy - has His hands bound so that he can't do it. (The alternatives are worse - that he doesn't have the power or isn't there at all.) If that is the case - he could but can't - then it's less painful to stop asking than to keep bloodying our knuckles banging on a locked door.

Yes. You are right Bravus. The options we have are not all pretty. But I choose to believe that God has his hand tied. The rules of the game require that sin run it's course for the Universe to see. Unfortunately we have to live it. It affects us greatly. But we are on screen for all the Universe and for us (His Saints) to see. Sin can never again return. So, we must most throughly hate it and it's results. And Jesus can't just let us off the hook from the results of sin. They must be shown and hated.

Let me also point out that the promises for Spritual help are all present and intact. He will send His Spirit to help us spiritually. I believe all promises are meant for our 'spiritual' good ... not our material good.

It is all about relationship.

In my own personal life, when I have asked, searched my own heart, and if the answer is still not forthcoming or if the answer seems to be no, then my next step is:

When threatened with the fiery furnace, the 3 Hebrews said: "Our God whom we serve is ABLE to deliver us....but IF NOT, be it known to you, ... that we will not serve your gods or worship the golden image..."

And:

Of Paul's "thorn in the flesh" he said: "Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly6 of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions,and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Cor 12:8-10 ESV.

Gerry

In cases like this I wonder if the person isn't so caught up in the problem that they have not heard or felt God answer? Maybe the horrible feelings and thoughts are so ingrained that the sufferer doesn't, can't, or want to let them go? After all, some people become defined by a catastrophic event. If they didn't have all that drama, who would they be?

I'm not saying that this is what is happening to this woman, just that it is this way for some.

Fair comment, but it's not at all like that in this situation. No drama, just complete emotional numbness and no access to her own emotions. If God had answered (at least with a 'Yes') there'd be very noticable changes.

Gerry, I get what you're saying, but that comes back to my earlier question: how is that situation distinguishable from God not existing at all? If we ask and the answer is empirically indistinguishable from the normal operation of the world... why ask?

Personally ... I no longer pray for my trials to be removed. I pray for the strength to endure and overcome the adversary who is providing them.

Redwood wrote:


Very well written and thanks for the reminder. http://www.bibletimelines.org/big_picture_start.htm

Sometimes God does send help but we don't recognize it. If we don't cooperate with the help He sends - such as professional counselors, medication, etc. - then we can't very well blame Him when nothing changes.

for just one second

I wish a certain banned member back for her perspective on this topic. I know it would be in keeping with mine, but her presentation of it would be ever so more eloquent.

Again, how is that different from God not being there at all? I know I'm hammering on this point, and I know it's an uncomfortable one, but if the claim "God will help us when we pray" just boils down to "You can go to a shrink"...

I know this is nowhere near the magnitude of what your loved one has suffered, but I keep thinking about the time it takes to heal from a physical wound, and the process by which the human body heals. It is by God's magnificent power that we are healed--and though He has the power to heal instantaneously, instantaneous healing is something I've never witnessed in all my life. Healing over time is no less miraculous, however.

[Sorry this post sounds disjointed, I've a couple of thoughts to share.]

There are wounds that heal with scarring. Wounds that heal with scarring and leave no sensation to touch. (I've several physical scars that have living tissue but have no feeling whatsoever.)
...
Is it possible to consider that God IS doing the healing? That it is a process, and not just a "wait" situation. Possible that emotional numbness is necessary in healing--beneficial even to the healing process itself?
...
I had a broken leg in 1993. For at least an hour after I'd broken the leg, I was struck "numb" from the knee down. I could not move my leg, nor even stand from a sitting position.
...
I think of the pain killers the doctors administer in the hospital--pain killers administered so that the healing process might take faster than otherwise. (Studies within the past 10 years have shown shorter healing times for those who adhere to a pain-relieving regimen.)

[See PM]

It could be, I guess. But again, the claim is that God can do miracles, and could instantaneously heal a broken leg if he so chose. Apparently he chooses not to.

I don't know about your particular situation, so I'm just speaking in general. I have seen many times where God works tremendously, over a period of time, through a trained counselor. If you're asking for an instant miracle, then you're right, God rarely chooses to work that way. Maybe because most of us need to learn patience, I don't know.

You've probably heard the story of the guy who prayed for help and then proceeded to turn away several people who stopped by to help because he was waiting for God to perform a miracle. That night he asked God why He hadn't helped him, and God reminded him of all the people He had sent to help him that day. That's kind of a simple illustration of what I'm talking about.

God does not leave us alone. He can guide us to a particular counselor or doctor or whoever that He can work through to bring healing. He normally chooses to work through other people. The only thing I have ever seen God work a miracle with - in sexual and other abuse situations - is with regard to forgiving the abuser. Most people cannot do that on their own, and it comes toward the end of the healing process.

It's hard to know why He doesn't heal everyone instantly when they are in pain or sorrow. But sometimes he glorifies His name in SPITE of the ailment.

This is also hard to understand, but I guess it is true that there would be no stories of courage without circumstances which demand courage.

To me, the issue of pain and suffering is not at all hard to understand. It is entirely related with the issue of sin. If God came in and interfered with the results of sin all the time, we and the rest of the universe wouldn't be able to get a true picture of sin and its results. We might not think sin is so bad or sense our need of a savior. It is important that the universe see where sin leads and how sin affects much more than the person doing it, and how evil and insidious it really is, so that there will never be any doubt, through eternity, as to the character of God.

I do totally understand how it's hard to appreciate that when you're the one suffering, though.

That's an interesting viewpoint, carolaa. I can see your position, and it makes sense.

1. Our situation is what it is - and vastly wonderful in almost all ways. We are in love and have a great family. Life is just tougher than it needs to be for Suzie, through no fault of her own, and she gets angry for the reason discussed next.

2. I understand all the points being made about the time taken, and the consequences of sin, and all that. The issue, then, is that Christians need to change their pitch. They keep making these claims about the miracles God will do if we only ask. But clearly he doesn't do them, for whatever reasons. So then they go into a whole long list of rationalisations and reasons why not. It would be much less heartbreaking not to talk about the miracles at all, if they're not really available. If what Suzie needs to do is go to a counsellor and have years of therapy, then that's what needs to happen. Telling her to pray for healing, with a side order of "and if it doesn't happen it's somehow your fault" is deeply unhelpful.

3. I appreciate all the kind support and efforts to help, but the thread is not about our situation but about faith in God and what he will and won't do.

Bravus, you've made a valid point. I would like to explore that further in the context of emotional sorrow and/or mental illness, but I will open a new thread for that. Please watch for it and I welcome your experienced input.

I agree, that's really bad.

Then OTOH, the gift of hope to the suppliant, when given by the Holy Spirit, doesn't seem to give any quarter if one wishes to continue in hope.

"Keep on asking and it will be given you; keep on seeking and you will find; keep on knocking [reverently] and [the door] will be opened to you. For everyone who keeps on asking receives; and he who keeps on seeking finds; and to him who keeps on knocking, [the door] will be opened." Matthew 7:7,8 AMP

I knew a JW who, after 30 years of prayer, exulted over the fact that at last his daughter became a JW. Maybe God has a reason of which we are totally unaware. Even the apostle Paul accepted the fact that God said no to His entreaties about a health problem. However, anything that is good for us to have will eventually, in God's timing, come to pass for His glory.
In the meantime;

"...now there doth remain faith, hope, love -- these three; and the greatest of these [is] love." 1 Corinthians 13:13 YLT
Blessings!

Yes, the apostle Paul is a good example.

I tend to think that those kinds of "ask anything" promises are intended for requests that will 1) help us grow spiritually, and 2) help us reach others for Christ. In other words, we can pretty much ask for anything in those areas, and it will be given to us.

We still need to be careful that we are in God's will when we ask, even within that paradigm - keeping in mind the time the disciples tried to cast out devils and didn't understand what they were dealing with.

We also need to keep in mind that God does not force Himself on people. I include that because there are people who pray for years for the salvation of others, but God will only work on their hearts and will not force them.

I have experienced both disappointments and miracles in my own life. Therefore I have learned not to be dogmatic about either one.

Gerry

I'm satisfied to believe, looking in retrospect on my lifes stream, my own personal safety for eternity is largely due to (some)one taking the interest
and time to remember me in prayer to the exclusion of the prince of darknesses attempts to destroy me, before I ever thought of being a friend of God(Jesus).

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 KJV
Regards!