Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar?

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#187796 - 09/22/08 10:09 AM Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar?
rush4hire Registered: 05/15/08 Posts: 596 Loc: Kansas	Alberto Rivera claims he used to be a Jesuit priest, and was trained to work with others in subterfuge to twist the arms of Protestant schools and churches to join the Roman Catholic Church in the ecumenical movement. 1. Ellen White We probably better start with Ellen White: Originally Posted By: Ellen_White Throughout Christendom, Protestantism was menaced by formidable foes. The first triumphs of the Reformation past, Rome summoned new forces, hoping to accomplish its destruction. At this time the order of the Jesuits was created, the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful (1.) of all the champions of popery. Cut off from earthly ties and human interests, dead to the claims of natural affection, reason and conscience wholly silenced, they knew no rule, no tie, but that of their order, and no duty but to extend its power (2.). (See Appendix.) The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents to meet danger and endure suffering, undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty, to uphold the banner of truth in face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake. To combat these forces, Jesuitism inspired its followers with a fanaticism (3.) that enabled them to endure like dangers, and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of deception (4.). There was no crime too great for them to commit, no deception too base for them to practice (5.), no disguise too difficult for them to assume (6.). Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility, it was their studied aim to secure wealth and power, to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism (7.), and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy (8.). {GC 234.2} When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed. (9.) It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination (10.), were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the Jesuits worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations [-- and now churches --] (11.). They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites (12.). All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery. {GC 235.1} So now, if Ellen White says Jesuits: 1. Are powerful. 2. Since their conception, to this day, have been working for nothing more than to extend their power and influence. 3. Are fanatical. 4. Have all the weapons of deception. 5. Practice the most base deceptions. 6. Assume the most difficult disguises. 7. Are devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism. 8. Are devoted to re-establish the supremacy of the Papacy. 9. While doing good deeds, conceal the most criminal and deadly purposes. 10. Lie, steal, commit perjury, assassinate. 11. Assume various disguises to climb up to high positions to even shape the policies of nations. 12. Establish colleges where the children of Princes and Nobles are drawn into the observance of popish rites. To say otherwise, you must reject Ellen White. 2. The Jesuit Oath Then there's the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Unction, which leaked out around 1907, or some time around then. Quote: My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant, and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope. You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means. You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope's sake, whose servants we are unto death. You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labors with the blood of the heretic; for "without the shedding of blood no man can be saved." Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me--- The Extreme Oath of the Jesuits: "1, _ now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola in the Pontificate of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christ's Vice-regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation and that they may safely be destroyed. Therefore, to the utmost of my power I shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness' right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and the now pretended authority and churches of England and Scotland, and branches of the same now established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere; and all adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now renounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or state named Protestants or Liberals, or obedience to any of the laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or Liberals to be damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare, that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness' agents in any place wherever I shall be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland or America, or in any other Kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical Protestants or Liberals' doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare, that notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to assume my religion heretical, for the propaganda of the Mother Church's interest, to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they may entrust me and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstance whatever; but to execute all that shall be proposed, given in charge or discovered unto me, by you, my ghostly father, or any of this sacred covenant. I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of Africa, or the jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me. I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever! All of which, I, _, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy covenant." (He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.) Superior speaks: "You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this rank. In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one cross his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to the center of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand points to the center of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges. The other answers Impious." (The meaning of which has already been explained.) "The first will then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times, which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then give and receive with him the following questions and answers: Question —From whither do you come? Answer — The Holy faith. Q. —Whom do you serve? A. —The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church Universal throughout the world. Q. —Who commands you? A. —The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ. Q. —Who received you? A. —A venerable man in white hair. Q. —How? A. —With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the Pope and of our sacred order. Q. —Did you take an oath? A. —I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, sex nor condition. To be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation of murmuring. Q. —Will you do that? A. —I will. Q. —How do you travel? A. —In the bark of Peter the fisherman. Q. —Whither do you travel? A. —To the four quarters of the globe. Q. —For what purpose? A. —To obey the orders of my general and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfill the conditions of my oaths. Q. —Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated." That certainly matches up with what Ellen White said. 3. Left Behind I have heard Doug Bachelor, Lyle Albrecht, Steve Wohlberg, and possibly others, publicly teaching about how the "Left Behind" doctrine came from the Jesuits. It is an adaptation of the Futurism interpretation invented in 1500s by Jesuit [Francisco] Ribera. He was commissioned to come up with an alternative interpretation of Bible prophecy that did not teach that the Pope was the Antichrist, which is what all Protestant denominations back then where teaching. Notice they where inventing doctrines to introduce to the Protestants to destroy Protestantism. This has been most successful. Now there are very few Protestant denominations that still teach that the Pope is antichrist. Most of them teach "Left Behind" or some other odd thing, as a result of the determined, fanatical, and untiring efforts of the Jesuits. Yet people laugh. Wait. We still haven't gotten to Alberto Rivera. 4. Alberto Rivera - Read the whole comic. Our testimonies are still matching up pretty good. With just the evidence so far, I would almost laugh historically at people who imagine that we do NOT have Jesuit spies among us trying to destroy our church and take over. But I don't because it is a serious matter, and I am not a scoffer. 5. Jim Arrabito Here's Alberto Rivera in an interview, with others who have discovered Jesuits in disguise, in their own denomination, trying to usurp the high, influential positions. One woman was married to a Jesuit priest, and when she found out, the guy just left. Another dean discovered one of his teachers was a Jesuit. Alberto Rivera was murdered by his old Jesuit friend, who said he was also coming out, but then poisoned his food and left. Jim Arrabito died in a mysterious "accident", after receiving a direct threat by a Jesuit priest, which you can see in that video. He made many other videos, which I will post as soon as I get time. 6. Phoenix These guys have been kicked out of countries so many times, because they are always starting civil wars. They manipulate Protestants to fight and kill each other. Then the Roman Catholic church comes in to clean up the mess, and becomes the hero, saving the day. They will have one guy plant porn on your web site, and their guy will come and have it removed, saving the day, and winning everyone's trust. And they do many such schemes to make their own guy look like the great hero, so he's the one that gets promoted and gets everyone's admiration. I heard a story about this great SDA leader who gave a gift to the Pope. He was in the World Council of Churches and some SDA kids tied a banner to some balloons and let it go there. No information on what it said, but I guess it was bad. Then the guy went up and apologized to the audience and explained how the SDA people really want to join this Council but we just have some tradition, you see. We are really not so bad. (Or he said something like that...). So this guy gets a magazine article in Adventist Review, with his picture on the front page, about what a great hero he is. That looks like a typical Jesuit set up to me. Tear 'em down, and build 'em up. I think that whole thing was a scam. I've noticed alot of these guys pushing these doctrines are always very witty and jovial and that just lightens up everything and makes them look like they have nothing to hide and the people sympathize with them. This same behavior can be observed in Catholic clergy. Like this guy: Conclusion There's quite a bit more information, but I have to cut it short, for now. Am I saying we should be paranoid and suspicious of everyone? Should we start up our own Inquisition? No. We have the weapons of truth. That should be enough. We must not let these devils shake us in our faith with their strange new doctrines. We must not give into these new ideals. Even if they seem to have everyone on their side and they teach "love love love love love", and they make you look like you're against the very concept of "love". It's going to take some strong faith to see through these delusions. Let them defame us, revile us, even torture us and kill us, and our families, and let us not give into their temptations. We also must realize that not everyone teaching doctrines that came from the Jesuits, are themselves Jesuits. If their efforts have been as effective as in the "Futurism" campaign, then they have seduced many and have created many unwitting disciples. But they are fighting against God. Good luck to them. Just don't give in. Don't join them. Don't betray your true brethren whom you know, whom you see in Revelation: Rev. 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: _________________________ I cant make a sig with 30 chrs
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#187817 - 09/22/08 01:27 PM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: rush4hire]
olger Registered: 12/27/05 Posts: 3190 Loc: Ohio	I believe he was real.
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#188069 - 09/23/08 10:09 PM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: rush4hire]
Bill Cork New Neighbor Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 2 Loc: Houston, TX	None of your arguments address the question you raise as to whether this man was telling the truth or making up a story. Please check out the investigations that were made into Rivera's past, including Cornerstone Magazine.
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#188101 - 09/23/08 11:54 PM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: Bill Cork]
Bravus Husband and Father Registered: 09/05/04 Posts: 7139 Loc: Brisbane, Australia	Welcome, Bill! _________________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate
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#188127 - 09/24/08 01:43 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: Bravus]
rush4hire Registered: 05/15/08 Posts: 596 Loc: Kansas	Please check out the investigations that were made into Rivera's past, including Cornerstone Magazine. Thank you for that link. I'll read that, as soon as I get time. But is there an independent, un-bias investigation? No one is surprised they would drum up a bunch of fake information. But I have seen the Catholic church publish so many bold lies, that's it's just ridiculous. Who do you trust? Who has any credibility? If anyone on earth does, it's not the Roman Catholic Church. They said John Huss claimed to be the 4th person of the Godhead. They said the children of the Waldensees where born with four rows of black teeth. They make up all kinds of things. They will say they have a letter from God Himself that just appeared on their alter. They will say you can buy an indulgence which gives you a free pass to sin, and can get people out of purgatory. They say that Mary is praying for us, and can even let down her rosary to pull people out of purgatory. All these are lies. No credibility at all. That's just from what I can think of on the spot. We could write whole libraries full of books just about the lies of the Roman Catholic Church. But there is plenty of real, factual data that proves Alberto Rivera's legitimacy. Was Alberto Really Who He Claimed To Be? _________________________ I cant make a sig with 30 chrs
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#188129 - 09/24/08 01:47 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: rush4hire]
carolaa Registered: 03/22/05 Posts: 1681 Loc: Texas	Do you know of any lies they have told lately? I mean, that was back in the Dark Ages.
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#188131 - 09/24/08 01:54 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: carolaa]
rush4hire Registered: 05/15/08 Posts: 596 Loc: Kansas	Originally Posted By: carolaa Do you know of any lies they have told lately? I mean, that was back in the Dark Ages. It's always easier to separate truth from lies, after the fact, in retrospect. Anyway. I found this pretty good presentation by Jim Arrabito on the history of the Jesuits. Part 1. A Part 1. B Part 2 Part 3 You can also read this one online: Fifty Years in the Church of Rome By CHARLES CHINIQUY The life story of Charles Chiniquy, who was a priest in the Roman Catholic Church for 25 years. There are a few pretty good books I've heard quoted alot. Some you can find here: http://www.chick.com/catalog/catholicism.asp The Secret History of the Jesuits -by- Edmond Paris The Two Babylons -by- Alexander Hislop The Fiery Jesuits -by- some German guy, I think. I haven't found those online yet. If you do, let me know. Thanks. _________________________ I cant make a sig with 30 chrs
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#188132 - 09/24/08 02:03 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: rush4hire]
carolaa Registered: 03/22/05 Posts: 1681 Loc: Texas	Actually, I'm not that interested in the subject of the Jesuits. But all the lies you mentioned as being told by the Catholic Church were from the Dark Ages. Do you know of any lies the Church has told, on record, within the last 100 years or so? I just don't think it's a very solid case to use evidence from 500 years ago.
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#188161 - 09/24/08 04:40 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: carolaa]
olger Registered: 12/27/05 Posts: 3190 Loc: Ohio	Originally Posted By: carolaa Actually, I'm not that interested in the subject of the Jesuits. But all the lies you mentioned as being told by the Catholic Church were from the Dark Ages. Do you know of any lies the Church has told, on record, within the last 100 years or so? I just don't think it's a very solid case to use evidence from 500 years ago. Yes, the Pope said evolution was a viable explanation of origins. They still say they had the right to change the sabbath (and their evolution posit is no doubt aimed at weakening Sabbath). They still claim to speak ex-cathedra (for God). They recently said they were sorry for killing those nasty "heretics." They are sorry that they got caught in our modern world of political correctness. and others, OG
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#188176 - 09/24/08 05:13 AM Re: Was Alberto Rivera for real? Or was he a liar? [Re: olger]
Bravus Husband and Father Registered: 09/05/04 Posts: 7139 Loc: Brisbane, Australia	The Alberto Rivera story has all the elements of every classic conspiracy story. It's a self-sealed system, since any inconsistencies can be explained away as part of the Jesuit plot. That makes it completely unassailable to any kind of evidence. _________________________ If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate
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