I would like to address the above embolded statement with reasons why I disagree with it.

Bob's revision of what Olger said in red

Evolutionism (regardless of the religious view (or lack thereof) of the one arguing for -- ) presents a mechanism for "creation" that is comprised of predation, starvation, tooth-and-claw-extinction in direct contrast to the Loving Craetor seen in the bible where God says "let there be" and evening and morning were the 6th day.


1) The Hebrew word yom means a 24-hour period. If a longer period of time was meant the word "olam" would have been used.

2) The "evolutionary process" (theory) is rife with happenstance, waste, contingency, death, pain and horror. This view makes God careless, diabolical and indifferent. This view is opposed to the God of scriptures who is as loving and selfless in creation as He is in salvation. People who propose theistic evolution need to solve the huge gap between the two worldviews.

3) why would God use and unjust survival of the fittest method to create when justice is the foundation of His throne? Psalm 89:14) Why would God use DEATH to create humans when He is love & life? If God used death to create, why then did He warn Adam of the evil of death? (Gen 2:17).

4) The fact that the onlooking universe shouted for joy at the creation of this world (Job 38:4-7) is inexplicable if Christ involved human & animal suffering for billions of years. Christ called creation “very good” (Gen. 1:31), and that’s worth singing about.

5) Christ’s warning to Adam about the tree of knowledge of good and evil, stating that eating its fruit would bring death (Gen. 2:17), indicates that death was not yet a present reality. Here evil and death are associated with disobedience to the Creator.

When Christ re-creates the earth, there will be no more curse (Rev. 22:3). Clearly curses and death are linked to disobedience and have nothing to do with Christ’s method of creation. That’s why Scripture says Adam introduced sin and death to the world (Rom. 5:12). It was Adam and not his Creator who brought death into the world.

6) Christ did not use death to create humans in Eden. Instead, the record is that He died to save humans at Calvary. Given a cosmic controversy in which Satan hates Christ and has engaged in a process of disinformation about God (Eze. 28:15, 16), it
makes sense that a natural method of creation through horror is something he (Satan) would promote, for it effectively destroys the drawing power of Calvary.

7) The awesome power of God’s creative word is further demonstrated by the speed with which His commands were fulfilled, for the Creation days were literal, continuous, contiguous, 24-hour periods of time.



This attempt to blend creation & evolution is NOT sustained in scripture.

I think the huge number of independent but confirmatory lines of evidence suggesting deep time (>6-10 ky) are convincing that the Bible story is not scientifically or historically accurate, except if we posit a God who has created a world that looks much older, presumably with intent to deceive
http://www.atoday.com/content/evolution-and-adventist-dilemma-part-4?page=1

But what about the reverse pattern? If someone leaves Christianity - because they were abused by a Christian, because they move to another religion, because they find it constricting on their behaviour, because of a million other reasons (and I'm not saying these are good reasons) - then they are likely to also leave creationism.

Because there is no reason to believe in creationism, in the face of most of the empirical evidence around you, without being a Christian who believes in a particular version of the Bible.

This means that your contention that the sequence is almost always 'find evolution, lose Christianity', while plausible, is not necessarily the case.

So what I'm looking for is evidence on the question of which sequence is more prevalent in the US and in Europe.