THANK-YOU ALL FOR RESPONDING AND I RESPECT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOUR VIEWS. IT'S SO HARD TO ANSWER EVERY LAST ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS AS I HAVE BEEN AWAY FROM THE MESSAGE BOARD ALL NIGHT AND SO MANY OF YOU HAVE RESPONDED TO THE THREAD I STARTED.

ONE GUY ASKS "ARE WHERE ARE THE VIDEOS , OR THE PROOF OF STATEMENTS.

PLEASE READ OUR MESSAGE BOARD COMPLETELY. THERE ARE TONS OF LINKS TO DAVID KORESH INFORMATION AS WELL AS PERSONAL TEACHINGS AND VIDEOS AND TAPES. SEARCH FOR THEM.

YOU WILL ALSO FIND LINKS TO THE MT. CARMEL HOME SITE AS WELL WHICH HAS NEW POSTINGS EVERYDAY AS WELL.

AFTER A COMPLETE EXAMINATION OF OUR MESSAGE BOARD AND WEBSITE AND AFTER YOU WATCH ALL THE VIDEOS ON OUR MESSAGE BOARD AND EXPLORE ALL THE LINKS , I AM POSITIVE THAT ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED.

Mark let me ask you a simple question, is Jesus the most high authority in your life? If yes, don t you remember the words of our members? "by their fruits you shall know them". What are the fruits of David Koresh? sexual abuse, unscriptural teachings, murder, violence and destruction. These are devil fruits. No matter how much info and theories you have got about David Koresh we can all assume according to Jesus that Koresh was a satanist!

members = master

Since you ask , we are Branch Davidian Seventh Day Adventist.

On our website , you will find links to a couple more BDSDA websites in our organization.

Mark, we have a policy here that people are not to come here recruiting for their cause.

If I see anything more along this line, I will ban you.

If you would like to remain here but participate in discussions WITHOUT lifting up David Koresh, you are most welcome to do so.

I don't want to discuss this any further. I hope that you will respect us on this.

Thank you Gail. We don't need recruiters here. But I wish he would come and have a conversation with us instead of just advertising his web site. But then, perhaps he just doesn't know enough about his "religion" to converse.

I too appreciate Gail's post.

If Mark wants to raise a specific part of his beliefs and ask for others' opinion and input, there could be
some benefit for everyone.

Supposedly David Koresh slept with a 70 year old woman and a 11 year old girl, and all the girls at the place, and everyone's wife. What a fiend.

1. But David Koresh was a work-a-holic. He was giving Bible studies, sermons, seminars, daily. He managed the construction business and gun trading business. He was talking to people, making connections, delegating authority. He was constantly busy.

Most work-a-holics and very busy and driven people, will tell you they have a diminished sex drive, not a drive to have lots and lots of sex. Where there's alot of work in a marriage, there's a danger that they are not intimate enough and will drift apart, sometimes, unless it's mutual.

So, most likely David Koresh only had sex with his own wife, and probably not often enough.

So that's another thing that doesn't add up.

2. There's also no video or audio evidence that David Koresh taught that everyone needed to let him sleep with their wives.

3. Also where is the DNA evidence that shows there where a bunch of kids sired by David Koresh.

They just wanted to make the Davidians look like an abomination. It's propaganda. Like the propaganda used against the Jews in Nazi Germany, and against the Waldenses.

Watch this video: Waco: The Big Lie



4 and 1/2 minutes in, you see an interview where David Koresh, himself, answers the allegation to the sex charges. It looks like he's telling the truth.

Look at Tony Alamo. For decades they have been trying to accuse him of polygamy and statutory rape and tax evasion and all kinds of other things. They don't have any evidence. They can't get a conviction. Nothing at all. Yet they still keep pushing their claims and allegations. Now they say he's into kiddie porn. It's pathetic. All lies.

They are doing that because Tony Alamo won't stop teaching the Papacy is the Antichrist. It is a character assassination conspiracy to ruin the preacher's credibility.



Notice the character assassination in the bottom left box:

I can't believe how much confidence people put in these conflicting stories. This report is not factual.



Wrong. Koresh's leadership began when he was chosen by the former leader.



This makes it look like they where having a shoot-out to see who would be the next leader. LOL.

That's not honest journalism.

Roden was angry because his mom, the former leader, chose Koresh instead of him. Roden invited them to his ranch and opened fire on David and friends.

When someone is shooting at you, the only thing you can do to defend yourself and keep them from killing you, is return fire. If you're unarmed and some lunatic starts shooting at you, you're dead. "...he beareth not the sword in vain", (Romans 13:4).

This is the wild-west we're talking about. There are lots of stories where wicked men have broken into some farm home and murdered and raped everyone there and stole all their money and goods. That kind of thing only happens to people who are foolish and presumptuous enough to live in the country, in the great plains, without guns.

This is where I grew up. Everybody we knew had several guns in their collection. My step-dad had a .38 special. We shot it at targets and caught some game. He taught me very seriously: "Always treat a gun like it's loaded." When I was 13, my other step-dad let me and my brother take the shot-gun out to get some quail. I knew the gun was not loaded, so I was about to click it at my brother's head to scare him, but I didn't because of that rule his dad taught me. Turns out when my brother had the gun he loaded it and I didn't know. The next time I clicked, target practicing on a sunflower, it blew the flower to oblivion.

If my step-dad hadn't of taught me gun safety, my brother would be dead, and I would be in a mental hospital to this day.

And they criticize the Davidians for teaching their children gun safety!!!!

Jesus told His disciples to buy swords. It they would have had guns at that time, He would have told them to buy guns, for self defense. To make sure they wouldn't be taken and killed before their time. They had a ministry to fulfill before they would be ready for martyrdom.



No one mentioned that they had a gun dealing business, that was perfectly legitimate? It was just money. Like how Paul was a tent-maker, and continued his occupation to support his ministry. The Davidians had other businesses as well. I suspect they had Jesuit spies among them persuading them into the gun business, so they would have guns out there so the ATF would have an excuse to come out and start shooting at them.

They where no different than any of the other gun dealers in Texas who where never raided. Except they gave Bible studies and taught that the Papacy was the Antichrist.

Everyone that teaches the Papacy is Antichrist is getting labeled as a cult. Because the zealous Papists have control over our media now. And over alot of things. Look at the ridiculous charges brought against Tony Alamo, Jack Chick, and the late Alberto Rivera. And the media hypes this stuff up.

The Jesuits can assign their students do this work for extra-credit. All they have to do is make lots of accusations and bear false witness. If they go to court and the charges are dropped, the ministry is still discredited and demonized.

And pretty soon, the rumors get out of hand. The false charges build up. More and more false charges. The people wonder why there are so many charges. He's like a drug dealer that the FBI can't pin anything on. So they are suspicious. By this time everyone thinks it's a cult.

Of course, usually they give in by this time. Tony Alamo hasn't, though. And check out all the bogus charges. Now they say he was a child porn king-pin. That's ridiculous. But he got arrested because of all the charges. Yet not a shred of evidence!

But his guys become more loyal, because they know it's the Papacy.

Jack Chick is too big. They can only slander him, but they can't send the FBI after him. And Rivera is dead. He swore an oath to the Jesuit order that if he ever defected, his brethren should kill him. And they did, in 1993.

The Jesuits have been playing these games for a long time. They are pretty good at it. That's how they destroy protestantism and how they have brought all these churches into the ecumenical movement. Those who wouldn't just take the benefits. I mean Ahab offered to buy the field first. You know what I mean?

That's how it goes with every organization that still teaches the Papacy is the Antichrist.

Except SDA, cause they are too big.

But eventually, they will figure out something. Sunday Law, I guess.

But I know Chick and Alamo, and whoever else, won't join SDA, because they think SDA has been overtaken by the Jesuits, and that's why SDA doesn't get any trouble. Plus the fact that the SDA church stands with the Papacy, accusing David Koresh and Tony Alamo, and the whoever else the media say is a cult, based on false allegations. That makes us look real bad.

Of course some cults are really cults.



They didn't have nearly that much ammunition. They where just gun dealers. They where not planning for a war or a raid.

They didn't have any grenades and not a single sub-machine gun. All their guns where perfectly legal and legitimate, and tax paid. They had lawyers in their congregation.

Shameless lies.

Exo. 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to [do] evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest [judgment]:

Do you think it's OK for you to raise a false report now? Or go in with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness? Or follow a multitude to do evil? Or speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment?

I testify against you this day, in the most loving way I know, if you repeat the lies against the Davidians, you do all these things.

And if you lie about people that burned to death and have to spend their lives in prison, for doing Bible studies? That's a pretty unloving thing, if you ask me. And it makes our church look very bad.

Mark,

While most of us love to converse with each other and with new people, we absolutely HATE wading thru long posts.

Since you have recieved a slight cold shoulder from everyone, let me do something a bit different....Let's talk from YOUR sources why the need for 2 crucifixitions...'k? And let's have a bit of converstation regarding those theological sources...

Now, you posted a link regarding Moses and his hitting the rock twice...I will copy a paragraph-
SIGNIFICANCE OF ROCK BEING SMITTEN ONCE IN HOREB WAS DESTROYED

"Here Moses sinned. He became wearied with the continual murmurings of the people against him, and at the commandment of the Lord took the rod, and, instead of speaking to the rock, as God commanded him, he smote it with the rod twice {which meant that Christ was to be smitten twice}, after saying, 'Must we {Moses and Aaron} fetch you water out of the rock.' He here spoke unadvisedly with his lips. He did not say, God will now show you another evidence of His power, and bring you water out of this rock. He did not ascribe the power and glory to God for causing water to again flow from the flinty rock, and therefore did not magnify Him before the people."--4 Spiritual Gifts, pg. 39:1 (bold emphasis, braces added).

"By this rash act {smiting the rock twice}, Moses took away the force of the lesson that God purposed to teach. The rock {of Horeb}, being a symbol of Christ, had been once smitten {to give water--Ex. 17:6}, as Christ was to be once offered {Heb. 9:28--crucified--to give the water of everlasting life--John 4:14}. The second time, it was needful only to speak to the rock {Num. 20:8}, as we have only to ask for blessings in the name of Jesus. By the second smiting of the rock, the significance of this beautiful figure of Christ was destroyed {showing that Christ was to be crucified twice}."--Patriarchs and Prophets, pg. 418:1 (bold emphasis, braces added).

When Moses first smote the "rock of Horeb" only one time to give life-saving water to Israel, it was to teach them the "lesson" that Christ, the "spiritual Rock" (1 Cor. 10:4), was to be smitten "once" (literally crucified) to give them the life-saving waters of "everlasting life" (John 4:14). By this forceful "lesson" they were to understand that "our Saviour was not to be sacrificed a second time" (PP411). But when Moses smote the rock again, not only "once," but twice, the "beautiful figure of Christ" was changed and its "significance...destroyed" (PP418). By "this rash act," another forceful "lesson" was taught, which clearly indicated that Christ was to be crucified twice! He was first to be crucified by typical Judah; and then again in the latter days He is to be crucified by antitypical Judah. But who are they? To learn the answer to that question, we must understand more about typical Judah in the days of jesus.

Isn't this [that part which is underlined] just wrong reasoning? If the first striking of the rock symbolized the crucifiction of Christ, why would the mistake of a man, an angry man, FORCE God into crucifying Christ twice?