Well, JimBob, I now understand where you are coming from -- CAG! I left that forum and came to C/A after trying to get past their insistence that the 10 commandments are not "commandments" but "suggestions"! And the fact that Jesus did not die to provide salvation for us, and take the penalty for our sins -- merely to "show us the love of the Father". I was fed up with all the talk, whenever put in to a corner with the Bible, that the Old Testament was full of "metaphors". I believe that the Bible is for real, not just a lot of "metaphors".

I was sent a book by Graeme Maxwell -- you can blow holes in his theology without expending any effort! His example of God's "vengeance" against the wicked is that of Isaiah and Manasseh. He pictures Isaiah walking through New Jerusalem and seeing Manasseh, and asks God why HE is there, and God told Isaiah of Manasseh's change of heart. Now THAT IS NOT "VENGEANCE" -- THAT IS SALVATION! His vengeance against the wicked is on those who HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE BUT REFUSE TO ACCEPT SALVATION! Not on the likes of Manasseh! THAT is twisting the Bible to fit one's own theories!

And I could give many more examples of twisting theology from that same book -- and that was only the part that I read before tossing it away.

Now I understand why you just toss pithy questions with no real answers, why you consider all others to be less "brainy" than you, and why I no longer find a lot to interest me in the C/A lesson segment, because any real discussion gets squashed as not coming up to your standard.

Thanks for the revelation.

Beryl

What I rant about factors into the lesson discussion I lead in sabbath school.

Since we are short on time I share less but did bring out what part of the debate was about...just by reading what the different views on the atonement were.

One class member mentioned at the end of the class..that he was kinda breathless at all that was covered in the class...

IOW...he was not used to being fed so much...

NFDMTTS are examples and it infiltrates into sabbath school and makes it so the sabbath school teaching pattern resembles that approach..

Well...I have about given up trying to communicate homiletic pattern concern to pastors...
they are usually clueless or lazy..

religious dope>>>>>>>2nd resurrection.....

Quote:

---

Well...I have about given up trying to communicate homiletic pattern concern to pastors...
they are usually clueless or lazy..

---

It could be. I find that most people get tired of being preached at constantly. Pastors seldom lack for people willing to tell them what they're doing wrong. It's amazing the number of people who feel themselves divinely appointed to find fault. I even heard of one church member who claimed to have been given the "gift of rebuke." Common gift, that.

Beryl,

Did you read Ed's posts too?

Do you get all of your exercise from jumping to conclusions?

I post about Maxwell because his atonement model has permeated Adventism and was part of the SDA commentary also.
Notice that I started out with his and then expanded on several views of the atonement which are outside of SDA...

Isn't that what the lesson refers to what the debate is all about..??

My pithy questions upset you? How about the pithy ones of the lesson study?

The metaphors??? Notice Ed brought up about the metaphors.

Look at the signature of Ed and Rom 2:1...
you talk about punching holes in Graham theology??

I suppose you are of the calibre of THD and are ready to contribute to the SDA commentary 2005 edition???

Also ..never heard of CAG..

Ed,

Glad you are still checking in..

I don't know if I want to even give you most of the details of my latest personal effort at the church I attend...it is as gentle as I can make it..

The communication related to the issue is really disappointing...I got more consideration when I challenged my Baptist pastor friend...even when he probably considered me a stranger.
He realized that iron sharpens iron and that I was "keeping him on his toes"

What do I get from SDA pastors...??
A carnal, self sufficient, Laodicean attitude...destined for the 2nd resurrection.

I have had long time SDA members- conference president, a union ministerial director a GC secretary staff member...all tuned into what I inputed...and they agreed...but some EXPERTS here know better then them.

This concept where the pastors are on receiving end of negative criticism constantly is fictitious..most "accusers of the bretheren"just go to another church or are apathetic or too timid to confront

not gentle here on CA...I just use this site as a head's up...that is why there is the constant rant approach..
Some are newbies here and if you took the time to read some more of my posts...no need to ..you would see how some new ones needed the NFDMTTS acronym explained..

There have been several on this site who are tuned into exactly what I mean...

There is actually a Christian radio talk show host in my area who does the same thing on a regular basis...
He mentions about the lack of teaching in pulpits...and he is a preacher too.

George Whitefield, who religious history notes as the greatest evangelist of the 17 century was right in the clergy's face of his time.

If with your post you are making a thrust that SDA clergy...in general ...are doing a competent job,,,IN PREACHING... and that my theme is unfair and should be factored into a small percentage of the clergy ...
then YOU ARE CLUELESS TOO.

Why your recent SIGNS article.???..isn't it because you are confronting false teaching?
By who????
THE CLERGY

FYI,

This is what all of the reformers and prophets go through..

There are so many churchian, blind, carnal, institutional,conventional, follower, sheeple out there ..

I bet Martin Luther had this flack....

How dare you criticize the church "fathers"...

The issue is Rom 8:7 , Jer 17:9..God wannabes who are involved in idolatry.

Being set up for the antiChrist.....

Quote:

---

This concept where the pastors are on receiving end of negative criticism constantly is fictitious..most "accusers of the bretheren"just go to another church or are apathetic or too timid to confront

---

When you make flat statements which are contrary to my personal experience and knowledge, well, I have to choose whom to believe: You or my own eyes.

Quote:

---

If with your post you are making a thrust that SDA clergy...in general ...are doing a competent job,,,IN PREACHING... and that my theme is unfair and should be factored into a small percentage of the clergy ...
then YOU ARE CLUELESS TOO.

---

If you mean when I wrote:

Quote:

---

. I find that most people get tired of being preached at constantly. . . It's amazing the number of people who feel themselves divinely appointed to find fault. I even heard of one church member who claimed to have been given the "gift of rebuke." Common gift, that.

---

No...I wasn't talking about SDA pastors. Some people just have an imperious tone, makes you feel like you're being talked down to. Most people don't respond well to that approach.

Quote:

---

Why your recent SIGNS article.???

---

"Recent" is too indefinite for me to identify which one you're referring to. Those which might qualify are Nov 2004, Jan 2005, March 2005, and April 2005. Those were all written a year or more ago, and I've fininshed two assignments since the beginning of the year, plus two for publications in Britain. I'm just trying to explain why I might be a little confused. If you tell me what the subject was, I might be able to respond to your question.

Quote:

---

The issue is Rom 8:7 , Jer 17:9..God wannabes who are involved in idolatry

---

Yes, I think that's it.