Memory Text: 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
1 Corinthians 1:18 COMMENTARY ROBERTSON NT WORD PICTURES God's power is shown in the preaching of the Cross of Christ through all the ages, now as always. No other preaching wins men and women from sin to holiness or can save them. The judgment of Paul here is the verdict of every soul winner through all time.

Sunday, February 27 For the Sake of the Righteous
Genesis 18:22-33 God’s Word “22 From there the men turned and went on toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing in front of the LORD. 23 ¶ Abraham came closer and asked, "Are you really going to sweep away the innocent with the guilty? 24 What if there are 50 innocent people in the city? Are you really going to sweep them away? Won’t you spare that place for the sake of the 50 innocent people who are in it? 25 It would be unthinkable for you to do such a thing, to treat the innocent and the guilty alike and to kill the innocent with the guilty. That would be unthinkable! Won’t the judge of the whole earth do what is fair?" 26 The LORD said, "If I find 50 innocent people inside the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake." 27 Abraham asked, "Consider now, if I may be so bold as to ask you, although I’m only dust and ashes, 28 what if there are 45 innocent people? Will you destroy the whole city because of 5 fewer people?" The LORD answered, "I will not destroy it if I find 45 there." 29 Abraham asked him again, "What if 40 are found there?" He answered, "For the sake of the 40 I will not do it." 30 "Please don’t be angry if I speak again," Abraham said. "What if 30 are found there?" He answered, "If I find 30 there, I will not do it." 31 "Look now, if I may be so bold as to ask you," Abraham said. "What if 20 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 20." 32 "Please don’t be angry if I speak only one more time," Abraham said. "What if 10 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 10." 33 When the LORD finished speaking to Abraham, he left. Abraham returned home.”
Genesis 18:26 COMMENTARY BY JOHN CALVIN God declares that his judgments were done with great mercy, even though all were so corrupt that not only fifty but ten righteous men could not be found there, and also that the wicked are spared for the sake of the righteous.

Monday, February 28 The Human Condition
Romans 5:12, 15, 18 KJ21 12 “Therefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, so death passed onto all men, for all have sinned. 15 But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one Man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 21Therefore as by the offense of one, judgment to condemnation came upon all men, even so by the righteousness of One, the free gift unto justification of life came upon all men.”
Romans 5:15 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY Through one man's offence, all mankind are exposed to eternal condemnation. But the grace and mercy of God, and the free gift of righteousness and salvation, are through Jesus Christ, as man: yet the Lord from heaven has brought the multitude of believers into a more safe and exalted state than that from which they fell in Adam. This free gift did not place them anew in a state of trial, but fixed them in a state of justification, as Adam would have been placed, had he stood.
Romans 3:9-20 NKJV “9 What then? Are we better [than they]? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." 13 "Their throat [is] an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps [is] under their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet [are] swift to shed blood; 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways; 17 And the way of peace they have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 ¶ Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:12 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES Become unprofitable. This word in Hebrew means, to become putrid and offensive, like fruit that is spoiled. In Arabic, it is applied to milk that becomes sour. Applied to moral subjects, it means to become corrupt and useless. They are of no value in regard to works of righteousness.

Tuesday, March 1 One Man’s Righteousness
John 8:46 NRSV “Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?”
John 8:46 COMMENTARY BY JAMIESON, FAUSSET, AND BROWN "Convicteth," bringeth home a charge of sin. Glorious dilemma! "Convict Me of sin, and reject Me: If not, why stand ye out against My claims?" Of course, they could only be supposed to impeach His life; but in One who had already passed through unparalleled complications, and had continually to deal with friends and foes of every sort and degree, such a challenge thrown wide among His bitterest enemies, can amount to nothing short of a claim to absolute sinlessness.
Romans 5:18 NRSV “Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.”
2 Corinthians 5:21 NRSV “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”
“"He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."”
1 John 3:5 NRSV “You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.”

Wednesday, March 2 The Justice of God
Exodus 34:7 MKJV “keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and who will by no means clear [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of fathers on the sons, and on the sons of sons, to the third and to the fourth generation.”
Job 8:3 MKJV “Does God pervert judgment? Or does the Almighty pervert justice?”
Job 8:3 COMMENTARY BY ADAM CLARKE God afflicts thee; can he afflict thee for naught? As he is just, his judgment is just; and he could not inflict punishment unless there be a cause.
Psalm 89:14 MKJV “Justice and judgment [are] the foundation of Your throne; mercy and truth shall go before Your face.”
Psalm 89:14 COMMENTARY BY JOHN CALVIN QUOTED BY SPURGEON As if the Psalmist had said, "The ornaments with which God is invested, instead of being a robe of purple, a diadem, or a sceptre, are, that he is the righteous and impartial judge of the world, a merciful father, and a faithful protector of his people." Earthly kings, from their having nothing in themselves to procure for them authority, and to give them dignity, are under the necessity of borrowing elsewhere what will invest them therewith; but God, having in himself all sufficiency, and standing in no need of any other helps, exhibits to us the splendour of his own image in his righteousness, mercy, and truth.
Jeremiah 23:5 MKJV “Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and act wisely, and shall do judgment and justice in the earth.”
Acts 7:52 MKJV “Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you have now been the betrayers and murderers.”
Acts 7:52 COMMENTARY BY ADAM CLARKE Ye first delivered him up into the hands of the Romans, hoping they would have put him to death; but, when they acquitted him, then, in opposition to the declaration of his innocence, and in outrage to every form of justice, ye took and murdered him. This was a most terrible charge; and one against which they could set up no sort of defense. No wonder, then, that they were instigated by the spirit of the old destroyer, which they never resisted, to add another murder to that of which they had been so recently guilty.

Thursday, March 3 One Died for All
Isaiah 53:5 ASV “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
Isaiah 53:5 COMMENTARY WESLEY’S NOTES Wounded-Which word comprehends all his pains and punishments. For our iniquities-For the guilt of their sins, which he had voluntarily taken upon himself, and for the expiation of their sins, which was hereby purchased. The chastisement-Those punishments by which our peace, our reconciliation to God, was to be purchased, were laid upon him by God's justice with his own consent. Healed-By his sufferings we are saved from our sins.
Romans 5:8 ASV “But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Galatians 3:13 ASV “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.”
Galatians 3:13 COMMENTARY BY ADAM CLARKE Being made an atonement for our sins; for whatever was offered as an atonement for sin was considered as bearing the punishment due to sin, and the person who suffered for transgression was considered as bearing the curse in his body; therefore, in the same day in which a criminal was executed it was ordered that his body should be buried, that the land might not be polluted, because he that was hanged, which was the case with every heinous culprit, was considered accursed of God.
Ephesians 5:2 ASV “and walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell.”
Ephesians 5:2 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES The meaning here is, that the offering which Christ made of himself to God was like the grateful and pleasant smell of incense, that is, it was acceptable to him. It was an exhibition of benevolence with which he was pleased, and it gave him the opportunity of evincing his own benevolence in the salvation of men.
1 Thessalonians 5:10 ASV “who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”
1 Thessalonians 5:10 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES The object here is to show that the one class would have no advantage over the other. This was designed to calm their minds in their trials, and to correct an error which seems to have prevailed in the belief that those who were found alive when he should return, would have some priority over those who were dead.

SABBATH AFTERNOON February 26

Read for This Week's Study: Gen. 18:22-33; Rom. 3:9-20; 5:12, 15, 18; 2 Cor. 5:14.


Memory Text: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18).

“As the sin bearer, and priest and representative of man before God, He [Christ] entered into the life of humanity, bearing our flesh and blood. The life is in the living, vital current of blood, which blood was given for the life of the world. Christ made a full atonement, giving His life as a ransom for us. He was born without a taint of sin, but came into the world in like manner as the human family. He did not have a mere semblance of a body, but He took human nature, participating in the life of humanity.

"Jesus Christ. . . clothed His divinity with humanity. . . . By coming as man Christ could die. By death He overcame death. The death of Christ bore to the death him who had the power of death, and opened the gates of the tomb for all who receive Him as their personal Saviour."—Ellen G. White Comments, The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7, pp. 925, 926.



The Week at a Glance: What happened at the Cross? Why did Christ have to die? How was the concept of substitution prefigured in the story of Abraham in which he and the Lord discuss the destruction of Sodom?


*Study this week's lesson to prepare for Sabbath, March 5.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUNDAY February 27

For the Sake of the Righteous

Though the Cross has stood at the center of the Christian faith from the earliest days up through today, debate has raged in the church over such basic questions as What happened at Calvary? Why did Jesus die? Did He have to die? What killed Christ? What did His death accomplish? Who was benefitted from His death? Though Paul said that he was determined not to know "any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (1 Cor. 2:2), the followers of Christ in the following centuries have not always agreed on just what "Jesus Christ, and him crucified" means.

Read Genesis 18:22-33 (if not familiar with the story, read the whole chapter). Notice the specific interaction between Abraham and the Lord. What principle is being expressed here that, in a powerful way, teaches an important truth about the Cross?





To understand the significance of these texts, it's crucial to see what Abraham didn't ask the Lord. He didn't ask that the righteous be spared instead of the wicked. He didn't say "Lord, let the righteous go; destroy the wicked." Instead, He asked that the Lord "spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein" (Gen. 18:24). And the Lord responded that "I will spare all the place for their sakes" (vs. 26). All the way through the dialogue, this same idea comes back: "for the sake of" the 45, the 40, the 30, the 20, or the 10 the Lord would spare the whole city, the wicked and all.

Here's the Bible's first clear explication of the crucial theme of the Cross: Because of the righteous, the wicked are spared. It was going to be the righteousness of another, of someone other than the "wicked" themselves, who would spare the wicked from the punishment that they deserved. For the sake of someone else, others are saved.

Read again the dialogue between Abraham and the Lord. Notice how readily the Lord agreed to lower the terms of the agreement . What does that tell us about God's desire to save us?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MONDAY February 28

The Human Condition

Yesterday's study opened up a crucial theme: the wicked saved for the sake of the righteous. In the story of Sodom, however, the righteous who were needed to save the city were not found. There weren't even ten people whose righteousness would have been deemed sufficient to spare these sinners from destruction.

In a sense, the inhabitants of the whole world are like the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. Maybe our sins aren't as outrageous or as violent as were those of the Sodomites (Gen. 19:5), but they're bad enough. (On the other hand, considering some of the horrendous crimes through which the world suffers now, maybe we're worse.) And, in a sense, too, the whole world faces the same judgment that Sodom and Gomorrah did.

The Bible is abundantly clear: Whether one lived in Sodom or elsewhere, every human being is a sinner; every human being has violated the law of God. No one, anywhere, has the righteousness to save himself or herself, much less anyone else, from judgment.

Read Romans 5:12, 15, 18. What was the cause of our human sinfulness?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is this sinfulness manifested in humanity? Rom. 3:9-20.

We are sinful, not only because of what we have done but because of what Adam had done. We are naturally the children of Adam. When he sinned, his nature became corrupted, fallen, sinful, and we inherited this same nature from him, somewhat in the same way that we inherit traits from our parents. We weren't literally in Adam when he sinned (as though we had some form of preexistence prior to our birth); we have simply reaped in ourselves the consequences of his fall, which is why we, having inherited sinful natures, commit sin. It's because of this connection with Adam that we all face the condemnation that sin brings.

Peel away all social, cultural, and even religious façades and look at yourself: Are your natural tendencies, your natural drives, toward good or toward evil, toward God or toward self? How does the answer confirm the Bible teaching about human sinfulness?

It is good to read about the wicked being saved for the sake of the righteous. However, practical, visible, real experience is that more times than not the righteous suffer for the sake of or because of the wicked.

Gerry

Hey Gerry,

Thanks for the input...if you see any more points above to pick at...be my guest. This leads to really understanding the issues at hand.

God allowed Abraham to "negotiate" for the salvation of the city. It was the presence of the righteous that had already been saving the city from destruction.

Abraham here was playing the role of the intercessor.

An interesting thought. Abraham stopped negotiating at 10 righteous. What would have been God's response if Abraham had continued negotiating? Would God have saved the city because of just ONE righteous man?

Beryl

Beryl..
Thanks for the input..


"Instead, He asked that the Lord "spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein"

Still doesn't make sense to me..

It depends on one's interpretation of what the "for" words means..

Abraham was changing the numbers for the righteous not wicked..

The latter part of what I pasted of the quote..doesn't fit in my present theology..

Seems like warped soteriology..

The issue is not a sacrifice or trade off...

The issue is trust, character, human's will..

I will chew on this further and definately cover it in the sabbath school class.

Jesus died for issues related to life, law and liberty...not to appease some Father in need of anger management.

Maybe it is a problem with how it is phrased..but right now..I am at odds with their interpretation.

Abraham..interceded because he didn't know how many righteous were in the city and was concerned with his relatives...

He was checking to see that God was not going to eliminate even the righteous to deal with the cancer of the wicked.

Here are some points...

Did Jesus die to affect the Father's attitude toward us?
Was the Father looking for some righteousness to reconcile his holy accounting department?

This might help...
was the cross for God or was it for humans and angels?

Was there really a negotiation?

Or was this a learning trip for Abraham?
He started with 50...and got to 10..if he really knew..he would have come up with the # right away.

Quote:

---

The implication puts a bad light on the character of the Father.

---

What implication is that?

Because of the righteous, the wicked are spared...

It implies a non relational fix it mentality.
This notion is too simplistic..and or shallow.
The part where Moses is allowed to see God's attributes on Mt Sinai...

doesn't match here...

God does not let the wicked off the hook because of the righteousness of Jesus...or else all should be off the hook...forever.


God addresses a lie, law, liberty and love with the salvation plan.

This trade idea without elaboration is a cheap fix..and God has a goal for much more..

Quote:

---

Because of the righteous, the wicked are spared...

---

Isn't that exactly what happens when a sinner accepts Christ as his savior?

Is not the wicked sinner spared, not because of any righteous deed, but because he relies on Christ's righteousness?

Look at the issues with the fall.

Eve believed a lie..God demonstrates death...shows Satan as a liar

There was law...accountability and responsibility reduced with antinomian behavior and notions of Adam and Eve..

The law was upheld by the death...demonstrating a restoration of concept/notion of responsibility/accountability

There was blameshifting because of the anxiety of guilt and shame.

Shame binds the human...Jesus takes the load/shoulders the responsibility and thus frees the victim..the human see disposition of the emotional and cognitive aberration. Heb 2:15 subject to bondage by fear of death.. >>liberty

The immediate interest, compassion , mercy, solution, multifaceted approach of God reveals the love for his creation.

The lesson brings out the issue of polemics/debates related to the significance of the cross..it takes place in the SDA denomination ..

http://www.pineknoll.org/adventist/lesson/references/2005/q1/maxinter.pdf

Check out lesson 10 portion..

I have never met this person yet some of the comments here echo my own meditations.

http://www.pineknoll.org/adventist/lesson/references/2005/q1/cross10-13.pdf

Check out this page..especially related to the atonement..

and say goodbye to NFDMTTS

http://www.pineknoll.org/adventist/lesson/index.html

You will never listen the same after chewing on the trust healing /great controversy/larger picture model of the atonement..

http://www.pineknoll.org/cag/index.html

A Graham Maxwell was a major contributopr of the SDA commentary especially on the book of Romans.

Once you get some idea of a different perspective on soteriology...you will understand my rant on NFDMTTS and playing church...also you will understand a little better why I am a clergy confronter.


My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...


It is pathetic!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Just think of what this implies of God..

---

You keep saying that, but it's opaque to me.

Quote:

---

No sinner is spared because he relies on Christ's righteousness..and nothing else.

---

Really. Am I alone in thinking that's called, "the Gospel?"
What else do we rely on?

BTW..those links are all available in the SS materials section of

http://www.ssnet.org/qrtrly/qrtrly.html

TUESDAY March 1

One Man's Righteousness

What do these texts say about the character of Jesus? John 8:46, Rom. 5:18, 2 Cor 5:21, 1 Pet. 2:22, 1 John 3:5.


Yesterday we looked at the universal problem of humanity, and that's sin. In contrast to every other person, however, there's Jesus, whom the Bible teaches did not sin. In other words, He was the only Person not tainted or infected by sin in any way. He kept the law of God perfectly, always obeyed the Father's will, and never once fell. In this sense, He stands out as different from every other human being.

Now, let's go back to the principle we looked at Sunday: that of the guilty being spared for the sake of the righteous. There were no righteousness men found in Sodom and Gomorrah, nor are there any found in the world at large. Jesus, however, is the exception, and the Lord will accept Christ's righteousness alone as sufficient to spare the world. It's as though, instead of ten righteous men to save Sodom and Gomorrah, the Lord allowed for one righteous Man to save a guilty world-and that Man was Jesus. See John 3:17.

Romans 5:17-19 says that everything Adam had done through sin, Christ came to undo. Adam brought sin, death, condemnation, and disobedience; Christ brought righteousness, life, justification, and obedience. Thus, just as it was only through Adam that we all became sinners, it's only through Christ that we become righteous. Hard as it is to understand, His righteousness was so perfect, so complete and satisfactory, that it was enough to cover the sins of the whole world. And that's because His righteousness was "the righteousness of God" (Rom. 3:21). Because Jesus Himself was God, and only God Himself could provide the righteousness needed to save a fallen world.

Sure, you're a wretch, and even if you hide that fact from everyone else, you can't hide it from God. But no matter how bad you are, isn't God's righteousness, which can cover the sins of the whole world, enough to cover even you? Think about the implications of your answer.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEDNESDAY March 2

The Justice of God

So far this week we've seen that God will spare sinners for the sake of another's righteousness and that Jesus alone had the righteousness to cover the sins of the world. But if that's true, then why did Jesus have to die? Wasn't His righteousness alone enough? Why the terrible death at Calvary?

These are good questions, and part of the answer lies in the limits of the Sodom and Gomorrah story, which gives only one aspect of the principles involved in the science of salvation.

Suppose, indeed, that there were ten righteous people in Sodom and Gomorrah, and, as a result, the cities were spared destruction. We would have seen here a great manifestation of God's mercy, for certain. Out of mercy, He spared these people the punishment that was justly theirs.

Now, in somewhat the same way, we've also seen that Christ's righteousness alone was enough to spare the whole world from the punishment of sin. This, too, represents an act of mercy.

Mercy, however, is only part of the picture. There's another element that cannot be overlooked regarding the character of God and His dealing with sin.

Look up the following texts. What point are they making about the Lord? How can we reconcile them with our understanding of a merciful God? Exod. 34:7, Job 8:3, Ps. 89:14, Jer. 23:5, Acts 7:52.


All these texts touch on a crucial issue regarding the plan of salvation:

the justice of God. The Bible says that God is just, and this leads to an important point: Again, suppose there were ten righteous people in Sodom and Gomorrah and the places were spared. That would be mercy, but it certainly wouldn't be justice, would it? There were some pretty vile, crude, violent people in those cities, were there not? Should they have gotten off free, with no punishment for their sins? Christ's righteousness is enough to cover every sin of every sinner in the world, no matter how vile, violent, and rude. If all were to go free, with no divine punishment, that would be mercy, but would it be justice?

Put yourself in a situation in which you need to execute judgment. And though you want to be merciful, fairness and responsibility also demand justice. How does such a dilemma reflect the issue before God: how to be both merciful with fallen sinners and yet, at the same time, be just with them, as well?

EDITED..because I was typing this up right when you (Nico) were posting..this is not a reply to yiou but input for the lesson to elaborate and widen the explication..

23 ¶ Abraham came closer and asked, "Are you really going to sweep away the innocent with the guilty? 24 What if there are 50 innocent people in the city? Are you really going to sweep them away? Won’t you spare that place for the sake of the 50 innocent people who are in it? 25 It would be unthinkable for you to do such a thing, to treat the innocent and the guilty alike and to kill the innocent with the guilty. That would be unthinkable! Won’t the judge of the whole earth do what is fair?" 26 The LORD said, "If I find 50 innocent people inside the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake." 27 Abraham asked, "Consider now, if I may be so bold as to ask you, although I’m only dust and ashes, 28 what if there are 45 innocent people? Will you destroy the whole city because of 5 fewer people?" The LORD answered, "I will not destroy it if I find 45 there." 29 Abraham asked him again, "What if 40 are found there?" He answered, "For the sake of the 40 I will not do it." 30 "Please don’t be angry if I speak again," Abraham said. "What if 30 are found there?" He answered, "If I find 30 there, I will not do it." 31 "Look now, if I may be so bold as to ask you," Abraham said. "What if 20 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 20." 32 "Please don’t be angry if I speak only one more time," Abraham said. "What if 10 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 10." 33 When the LORD finished speaking to Abraham, he left. Abraham returned home.”

Look, I don't want to be insulting, but I read all the references you put up. Is this new to you?

I hate to tell you, but there's nothing particularly new to me here. I've heard of all of this for years.

Nor does any of it answer my question.

Why don't you do some explication?

The info in the links is not new...I pasted for those who might be viewing the thread.

Are you not aware of the flavors regarding the views on the atonement issue?

In some of the links..John uses italics to bring out the nuances of what is involved in the heart of the gospel controversy..

It is related to paganism..and ultimately to idolatry..because it is associated with mischaracterising the character of God.

Nico,

Yes...and maintain that theme in all facets of soteriology...read the sentences, conclusions and opinions of the authors or teachers to see if they are consistent with your theme.

Look at words like cover the sins..for WHO?

I am compelled to maintain that theme in all facets of soteriology, because anything less is disservice to God and discouragement to the souls for whom He gave His Son. But you will never find me looking to sneak "works" (the heresy of attributing salvific merit to human will or effort) into the package as my solution to the problematic errors of "divine anger management" theology. It's too much like trying to say we are saved (or not) by how we feel.

Quote:

---

Look at words like cover the sins..for WHO?

---

I don't think you're understanding either Maxwell or scripture.

All of these things are metaphors. These metaphors were used in scripture to explain to people of that time what God was up to. If you isolate on one metaphor, you must understand the context in which it was used.

We have adpoted the language because it is Biblical. But no single metaphor explains it all. Nor will they ever. Fortunately God and His ways are infinite, and we are but finite. The fact that each metaphor is inadequate does not mean that they are false--only incomplete. Completing our understanding will take eternity.

We've heard a great deal about NFDM????? whatever the heck it is you always accuse others of.

Well, how about some red meat here? Explain it to us in words we can understand. The real test of a teacher/preacher is not demonstrating how much he knows or can do, but how much those he teaches/preaches to can do.

Oh, yeah, and put your words, sentences, and conclusions on the line.

Quote:

---

Here we go with the usual theological cliches heard from the pulpit , without any thinking the applications through.

Please separate my thoughts and words from personalities...

---

I can understand why you'd want that last bit. The first sentence is arrogant, condescending, and rude.

Apologize to Nico.

For the most part I ignore your attitude theological superiority, but this is iniquitous.

Someone (Nico) tries to understand what you are not communicating well, and you blame her for "not thinking." Well, "thoughtless" is the best light I can put on your comments toward her.

Quote:

---

Getting under your skin??

---

Don't flatter yourself any more than you already have.


And you know, if you were, do you think that would prove something worthwhile about you?

Is that your understanding of what a christian does?

If you have so much to share, why not share it?

As far about your assumptions about Wednesday night--words fail. They don't rise to the level of error.