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#39295 - 05/16/05 02:34 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4041
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
How did Jesus came back to life when there is no resurrections for those who die the 2nd death?
Thanks,
Yongttay
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9 KJV
It is important for you to build your own foundational faith between you and your Father in heaven, Yongttay, without any human other than Jesus interfering with settled conclusions on your part. That is not to say other members of the body of Christ cannot be helpful to you as they relate their own experience in the leading of the Holy Spirit, through the Divine Word, the Holy Scriptures. It just means that whenever the seed of the Word is sown in your heart, it will only be understood correctly through the discernment given by the Holy Spirit.
" But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father" John 16:13 AMP
"Oh, there is so much more I want to tell you, but you can't bear it now." John 16:12 NLT
Since all men are falling short of the glory of God, that which we might give to you will not only be subject to the frailties of the individual giving it, but at our finest hour it will still only be partial in its' truth.
"For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away." 1 Cor 13:9,10 NKJV
I have found that if I strive to follow that with which I know to be true, the Holy Spirit continues to open new vistas of knowledge as I or others would benefit from it, along with the fruit of the Spirit, to His honor and glory.
"But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge]." Galatians 5:22,23 AMP
Keep looking up!
Edited by LifeHiscost (05/16/05 02:42 AM)
_________________________
Lift Jesus up!!
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#39296 - 05/16/05 02:42 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1123
Loc: hopefully in Church and not on...
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I heard from a wonderful minister that when you look at the story of Abraham and Issac you see God directed Abraham to Kill His own son.
God didnt direct for Abraham to Watch as His own son to die but for father to do it himself.
GOD Himself Took JESUS Life on the cross. That was worse than watching HIM die.
God Himself Poured out wrath on HIM for us.
This is what the minister demostrated to me through Abraham and Issac.
Many here will not agree with this profound mystery. Thats ok
I still cant wrap my brain around it but God works in me through such lofty revelations. It subdues me and warms my heart towards such a GOD Family such as this.
_________________________
All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD
"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25
That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
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#39297 - 05/16/05 02:43 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 993
Loc: In the heart of SDA culturevil...
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Again Robert,
This does not answer the man's question at all. You seem to be rambling about non-relative details.
_________________________
It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}
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#39298 - 05/16/05 02:44 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1123
Loc: hopefully in Church and not on...
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and beleive me Im not worthy of any of these scenios that the posters have posted
_________________________
All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD
"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25
That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
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#39299 - 05/16/05 02:47 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1123
Loc: hopefully in Church and not on...
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Wicklands Hello,
I hope u dont mind me saying this....
We are required to answer the mans question?
Cant we just share our thoughts?
God bless you
_________________________
All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD
"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25
That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
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#39301 - 05/16/05 03:35 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 14438
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
Again Robert,
This does not answer the man's question at all. You seem to be rambling about non-relative details.
Let's see...Here's his question:
"How did Jesus come back to life when there is no resurrection for those who die the 2nd death?"
I answered it....In fact I proved that our fallen humanity, which God placed "in Christ", wasn't resurrected! That sinful life died eternally....At the resurrection Christ as God took a glorified humanity to heaven, free of sin and mortality.
Ellen White sheds some light here:
BC- 5BC
TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 5
CN- MAR2
CT- Mark
PR- 04
PG- 1113
When the voice of the angel was heard saying, “Thy Father calls thee,” He who had said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again,” “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died….
Please note the pre-existing Christ (as God) didn't die....That life lay dorment....What died eternally was our old sinful life from Adam....
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#39302 - 05/16/05 08:25 AM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: Bunny]
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Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
"Please note the pre-existing Christ (as God) didn't die....That life lay dorment....What died eternally was our old sinful life from Adam.... "
The above quotation gives me the impressions that Christ did not really die. That at the incarnation, Christ simply put on the fallen human flesh clothing which He had been wearing for 33 1/2 years. At the cross, He simply got rid off the fallen human flesh clothing. Meaning that the fallen human flesh clothing was the one that died the second death - eternal death, and as God, Christ did not die and that's why He came back to life. Did I understand you?
Yongttay
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#39303 - 05/16/05 12:35 PM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: ]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 14438
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
THE ABOVE QUOTATION GIVES ME THE IMPRESSIONS THAT CHRIST DID NOT REALLY DIE.
AS GOD...CHRIST DIDN'T DIE. WHY? FOR ONE HE NOT THE SINNER...WE ARE! THE LAW DEMANDS THAT THE SINNER DIES...NOT A SINLESS BEING. SUBSTITUTION DOESN'T LEGALLY ANSWER GOD'S LAW....AFTER ALL GOD'S LAW STATES,
“THE PERSON WHO SINS WILL DIE [I.E., THE 2ND DEATH]. THE SON WILL NOT BEAR THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE FATHER’S INIQUITY, NOR WILL THE FATHER BEAR THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE SON’S INIQUITY; THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE RIGHTEOUS WILL BE UPON HIMSELF, AND THE WICKEDNESS OF THE WICKED WILL BE UPON HIMSELF. EZ 18:20
Quote:
AT THE INCARNATION, CHRIST SIMPLY PUT ON THE FALLEN HUMAN FLESH CLOTHING WHICH HE HAD BEEN WEARING FOR 33 1/2 YEARS.
NO, HE DIDN'T WEAR IT....WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT LIVES IN THE BELIEVER, DOES HE WEAR THE BELIEVER? NO...THE BIBLE STATES THAT HE RESIDES IN BELIEVER....
WHAT CHRIST AS GOD DID WAS TO BLEND OUR FALLEN HUMANITY WITH HIS DIVINE LIFE. THAT HUMANITY BELONGS TO YOU AND ME....IT IS WHAT DIED! THAT'S WHY PAUL CAN SAY,
...OUR OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM....[ROM 6:6] YOU DIED TO THE LAW [IT DEMANDED YOUR DEATH...WHERE?] [ROM 7:4] IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.
THIS IS NEW STUFF, HUH? WELL IT IS THE GOSPEL....TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOU COULD DIE "IN CHRIST" AND YET BE TALKING TO ME NOW, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND OUR SITUATION "IN ADAM"....ARE YOU GAME?
ROB
PS: Sorry about the caps...
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#39304 - 05/16/05 02:28 PM
Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death?
[Re: Bunny]
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 993
Loc: In the heart of SDA culturevil...
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Sorry, Robert, but yongtay's characterization sounds exactly like my impressions after reading your dissertations. You need to try to ween yourself off of TOTALLY relying on Paul's version of events. Some is good, but there are other places that need looking at.
_________________________
It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}
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