Did Jesus die the 2nd death? - unOFFICIAL ADVENTIST FORUM

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#39325 - 06/02/05 06:26 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
yongttay Registered: 05/14/05 Posts: 119 Loc: Washington, USA	Quote Norman: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18: 20. Jesus never sinned so He had the power to take up His life at the call of our Father. If we die the 2nd death we have no power to take up our lives because we have sinned. By becoming one with us He could die for sin and we (humanity) being one with Him, through the flesh, died with Him at the cross. That's how God can justify us by grace and not contradict what is written in Ezekiel 18: 20." I have not been able to do any posting until today. I would like to thank every one who try to help me with answers to my question. The above quote by Norman is the answer I have been looking for. Had Jesus Himself committed one single sin, He could not have been able to come back to life. The key to Jesus being able to come back to life from the eternal death is His 33 1/2 years of sinless living inspite of the fallen sinful human nature that He took from us. Death could not keep Him there. For the law to be absolutely just, it has to release Jesus from the death prisonhouse. Thanks Norman. Thanks All, yongttay
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#39326 - 06/04/05 04:07 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
Norman The Troubadour Registered: 03/19/05 Posts: 1927 Loc: Georgia/US	Hi Yongttay, I'm glad I was able to help. Take care and God bless. Norman _________________________ The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and He addeth no sorrow with it. Proverbs 10:22 http://www.icompel.com
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#39327 - 06/04/05 04:26 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 15441 Loc: Columbia, SC	Quote: Had Jesus Himself committed one single sin, He could not have been able to come back to life. Just remember that Christ never died! Of course I am talking of Christ as God....What died was the humanity that Christ assumed. Now if Christ as God had sinned...well, I don't even want to think about it. Lucifer sinned and look at all the terrible things...but He wasn't God! If Jesus would have sinned He would have joined Lucifer and together they would have opposed God. Terrible....But of course the Trinity knew this wouldn't happen long before the incarnation. _________________________ "We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#39328 - 06/06/05 08:45 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: Bunny]
yongttay Registered: 05/14/05 Posts: 119 Loc: Washington, USA	"Just remember that Christ never died! Of course I am talking of Christ as God....What died was the humanity that Christ assumed.- Robert" If Christ as God had never died and only the humanity that Christ assumed that died, then Christ did not really died. He simply let the humanity that He assumed to die. Is that what you are saying? That would mean there was no sacrifice from Christ or God. Lucifer could not stop laughing at this joke. yongttay
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#39329 - 06/06/05 09:43 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
LifeHiscost Registered: 06/14/03 Posts: 4164 Loc: Western United States	Quote: inspite of the fallen sinful human nature that He took from us. Not to be picky, but Jesus did not have a sinful nature. If He did He would have had to die for His own sinfulness. His death was caused by "becoming sin" for us, yet not being found with sin in Himself. Only a perfectly sinless Creator could justifiably substitute Himself for the just penalty of death deserved by the sinful. It was the second death He died as it is the second death He takes away from those who deserve that death. Each man bears their own first death. "....it is appointed unto men once to die" Hebrews 9:27 KJV "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Cor 5:21 NKJV _________________________ Lift Jesus up!!
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#39330 - 06/08/05 04:01 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
Norman The Troubadour Registered: 03/19/05 Posts: 1927 Loc: Georgia/US	Hi Life, If Christ did not have our sinful nature then what do these verses mean? 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. God bless, Norman _________________________ The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and He addeth no sorrow with it. Proverbs 10:22 http://www.icompel.com
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#39331 - 06/08/05 12:35 PM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
LifeHiscost Registered: 06/14/03 Posts: 4164 Loc: Western United States	Quote: *Norman said:* Hi Life, If Christ did not have our sinful nature then what do these verses mean? 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. God bless, Norman The only way I would be able to explain it, in order to be consistent with all other Scripture considering His assumed nature, would be to say there is a difference between "the sinful nature", and the "physical nature", as expressed in some translations. "Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature]....[" Heb 2:14 AMP brackets theirs "Which of you can truthfully accuse Me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don't you believe Me? " John 8:46 NLT "For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning." Hebrews 4:15 AMP I have in previous moments questioned how Jesus could sympathize with me when never being in the position of having tasted purposeful sinful conduct. But I do believe if I could answer that question, I could answer this one__ "[That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it cannot. So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him. But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God]." Rom 8:7-9 AMP Blessings! _________________________ Lift Jesus up!!
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#39332 - 06/08/05 01:39 PM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
Norman The Troubadour Registered: 03/19/05 Posts: 1927 Loc: Georgia/US	Hi Life I have just a moment to reply before I go to work. Here's what Hebrews is saying. Jesus had to take our flesh, fallen as was handed to to Him from Adam,havest as we are. He was tempted as we are but never sinned. If Jesus, our Lord and Savior, did not have the same sinful flesh that we have, then He could not be our example or be our substitute in death. Got to go, have a great day Norman _________________________ The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and He addeth no sorrow with it. Proverbs 10:22 http://www.icompel.com
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#39333 - 06/09/05 10:13 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
LifeHiscost Registered: 06/14/03 Posts: 4164 Loc: Western United States	Quote: *Norman said:* Hi Life I have just a moment to reply before I go to work. Here's what Hebrews is saying. Jesus had to take our flesh, fallen as was handed to to Him from Adam,havest as we are. He was tempted as we are but never sinned. If Jesus, our Lord and Savior, did not have the same sinful flesh that we have, then He could not be our example or be our substitute in death. Got to go, have a great day Norman If you mean Jesus was tempted the same as Adam before he (Adam) succumbed to temptation, I agree. Whether or not the correct understanding of this is important to our salvation probably depends upon whether we accept it according to the way Jesus understands it, and passes on that information to us. It does appear that you might not understand it the same way I do. I do not accept the Scriptures given as indicating any sinfulness whatsoever connected to Jesus, except what He accepted as from us, that for which He received our penalty of death. Had He not been assaulted, unjustifiably since He had no sin, by the prince of darkness, He would/could have lived without seeing death. Of course then those He came to save could not have been. "Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye." Proverbs 7:2 KJV "For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them." Romans 10:5 KJV This Jesus did without flaw. Blessings! Edited by LifeHiscost (06/09/05 10:23 AM) _________________________ Lift Jesus up!!
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#39334 - 06/09/05 11:13 AM Re: Did Jesus die the 2nd death? [Re: ]
Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 15441 Loc: Columbia, SC	Quote: For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them." Romans 10:5 KJV Why are you quoting the above out of its context? Are you trying to put believers under law? The context: 4 For Christ is the end [completion] of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness [in other words you must obey in order to live]....8 “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” And BTW, Jesus as God had to assume our sinful, fallen life in order to meet the legal demands of God's law. Rejecting this truth is damnable (see Gal 1:6-8) _________________________ "We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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