Fashion police, look here!!! - unOFFICIAL ADVENTIST FORUM

Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.
And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with
– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.
Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message

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#40481 - 05/24/05 06:05 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
wicklunds Registered: 01/30/05 Posts: 993 Loc: In the heart of SDA culturevil...	I don't know, you tell me Nico. We seem to be defending any and all choices in the church from the platform of Pauline theology. What about when our choices of dress cause the weaker brethren to stumble? What about the message we are sending to the world? This is important, but more important yet is the relationship with God we have that gives rise to increased sensitivity to others who look to us for spiritual leadership. _________________________ It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}
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#40482 - 05/24/05 06:12 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
Gail I have many points... Registered: 12/10/02 Posts: 13644 Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa	Wow, Dennis- I don't know where you go to church, but it isn't that way where my membership is... One might see a visitor come in dressed in street attire, but we like visitors, and don't bother them about their clothing Is this a trend in your area, what you are talking about? _________________________ Gail gail@adventistforum.com And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17
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#40483 - 05/24/05 06:31 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
Clio The King's Daughter Registered: 03/31/05 Posts: 2747 Loc: Alaska	Quote: Remember this quote as you survey the landscape in church next Sabbath... When we reach the standard that the Lord would have us reach, worldlings will regard Seventh-day Adventists as odd, singular, straight-laced extremists. "We are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men." {RH, January 9, 1894 par. 10} James 4:11-12 11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? When we focus on the outward appearance we have lost our focus on Jesus. The more we focus on a love relationship with Jesus, the less our focus will be upon the world. 1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. We are not called to judge our fellow Christians. We can't do it, being lost in sin ourselves. We are called to love them, pray for them, treat them with compassion and always focus our attention, and if possible, their attention on Jesus. It is through beholding Him that we are become changed into the people He would have us be. It is only* through beholding Jesus that we are changed... 2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord. To focus your attention on the outward appearance of the members of the SDA congregation you attend, or any of us attends, is to take our eyes off of Jesus... and then, no matter where we go to church or what denomination we are, or whether or not we believe EGW was a prophet...no matter what else there is about us that might be good, right, or honest... we are lost. Because we have taken our eyes off of Jesus. Food for thought. Clio
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#40484 - 05/24/05 07:02 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
Clio The King's Daughter Registered: 03/31/05 Posts: 2747 Loc: Alaska	Quote: Most, I am afraid to admit, are like you, in that they have not a care in the world about how we appear to the world. That is why we are so like the world, almost indistinguishable from the world. ... [snip] Niel, you claim to be a champion of the church and hard at work, but my question is, do you care enough to enter into corrective dialogue when you perceive a problem? [snip] We are not called to judge and correct our brothers in Jesus. That is the work of the Holy Spirit and those placed in authority over them. Are you placed in authority over your church? Quote: What "work" will we be doing to help our neighbor come to a saving knowledge of Christ? Is our nectar more important than the balm of Gilead? Does our own household have such a hold on us that we are following the world down into hellfire? If this is true then Lord help us break free and see our true place. In no way are you applying the balm of Gilead. In no way have you brought a focus on the redemptive, compassionate love of a Saviour, who came to save not to condemn or judge. Instead you have become the judge, the jury, and the arbiter of fashion without knowing their hearts. In Luke 6:36-37, out of the very heart and mouth of Jesus we are told, 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. 37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Even Jesus forebore to speak judgement on anyone. He knew He was sent into this world with one mission... to save all He possibly could, to give everlasting life. Judgement and punishment belong to One and One alone... and HE chooses to allow the veil of mercy to continue yet a while. John 12:47-50 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not *believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak." Is your understanding better than His? Cannot your life, your example, be the witness instead of condemning through your words? It is not by listening we are changed, it is by beholding Jesus. Clio
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#40485 - 05/24/05 07:32 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: Billy Dennis]
Anonymous Unregistered	Quote: I agree, we're insufficiently weird and extremist. I HAVE NEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF THAT
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#40486 - 05/24/05 07:32 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
cricket Registered: 11/11/03 Posts: 4903	Dennis, are you saying that the weaker brethren are prone to stumble because of the women with half-exposed breasts? Hmm. And, then are you saying that these very men are the ones requesting that she cover-up? My advice then, is that this request not be a one-sided front. Indeed, ask the women to cover up, but then also put up a strong battle and ask the men to stop looking lest they be tempted. (And, I should add, this should be done in a one-on-one basis---just as the woman is confronted, so should the men.) _________________________ http://tinyurl.com/6ncnzl
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#40487 - 05/24/05 07:56 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
Shane Administrator of Foro Adventista Registered: 02/02/02 Posts: 17015 Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas	I don't know if there ever was a time when Adventists dressed differently than the culture they lived in. Of course Adventists, like all Christians, have dressed modestly (which differs depending on the culture) but when I think of a group being "odd, singular, straight-laced extremists" and "made a spectacle unto the world", I think of Islamic women or the Amish. I don't think Adventists have ever been in that catagory. _________________________ I reserve the humble right to be wrong. Link > Shane's Page - update in progress
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#40488 - 05/24/05 07:58 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: CaregiverDee]
wicklunds Registered: 01/30/05 Posts: 993 Loc: In the heart of SDA culturevil...	Quote: Dennis, are you saying that the weaker brethren are prone to stumble because of the women with half-exposed breasts? Hmm. And, then are you saying that these very men are the ones requesting that she cover-up? My advice then, is that this request not be a one-sided front. Indeed, ask the women to cover up, but then also put up a strong battle and ask the men to stop looking lest they be tempted. (And, I should add, this should be done in a one-on-one basis---just as the woman is confronted, so should the men.) Obviously men have their spiritual work to do as well Christine. But must men walk around blindfolded? I am tired of this excusing of blatant and outright perversity in dress by women. This is not how we should be as SDA's. I am not talking about the visitor, I am talking about CHURCH MEMBERS. _________________________ It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}
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#40489 - 05/24/05 08:03 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
wicklunds Registered: 01/30/05 Posts: 993 Loc: In the heart of SDA culturevil...	Quote: Quote: Most, I am afraid to admit, are like you, in that they have not a care in the world about how we appear to the world. That is why we are so like the world, almost indistinguishable from the world. ... [snip] Niel, you claim to be a champion of the church and hard at work, but my question is, do you care enough to enter into corrective dialogue when you perceive a problem? [snip] We are not called to judge and correct our brothers in Jesus. That is the work of the Holy Spirit and those placed in authority over them. Are you placed in authority over your church? Quote: What "work" will we be doing to help our neighbor come to a saving knowledge of Christ? Is our nectar more important than the balm of Gilead? Does our own household have such a hold on us that we are following the world down into hellfire? If this is true then Lord help us break free and see our true place. In no way are you applying the balm of Gilead. In no way have you brought a focus on the redemptive, compassionate love of a Saviour, who came to save not to condemn or judge. Instead you have become the judge, the jury, and the arbiter of fashion without knowing their hearts. In Luke 6:36-37, out of the very heart and mouth of Jesus we are told, 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. 37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Even Jesus forebore to speak judgement on anyone. He knew He was sent into this world with one mission... to save all He possibly could, to give everlasting life. Judgement and punishment belong to One and One alone... and HE chooses to allow the veil of mercy to continue yet a while. John 12:47-50 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not *believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak." Is your understanding better than His? Cannot your life, your example, be the witness instead of condemning through your words? It is not by listening we are changed, it is by beholding Jesus. Clio Sorry to disagree Clio, but silence will not do in these areas. Like I said in another post, we must address the most obvious areas in our faith that need addressing RIGHT NOW or who can we blame for the stumbling of others? Yes there is obvious necessity of kind witness in our faith, but when a person cares so little about others as to not say a thing when the beam that is poking out of their eye pokes you in your's too, is this o.k.? Business as usual? Let us all go down in the same ship together? Lets grab hands and allow ourselves and our brothers and sisters to walk peacefully to the other banner? ...I am sorry but I cannot reasonate with all this. It is time we spoke up on this stuff and stop acting like dead ducks with the water rolling off our backs. _________________________ It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}
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#40490 - 05/24/05 08:06 PM Re: Fashion police, look here!!! [Re: ]
Gail I have many points... Registered: 12/10/02 Posts: 13644 Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa	Quote: I am tired of this excusing of blatant and outright perversity in dress by women. This is not how we should be as SDA's. I am not talking about the visitor, I am talking about CHURCH MEMBERS. And I am saying, I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about... Perhaps our members in the churches up here in Canada are more conservative than down there, or maybe I belong to a more traditional congregation But I do visit around the other area congregations and except for maybe once, the women I've noticed are dressed the same as they are in normal society- covered up. They don't look like those on kids' music videos or in the magazines, etc I've noticed that people can tend to dress DOWN in some of the more liberal congregations, but not skanky You talk as if it is a big problem or something... Is it really that bad where you are? _________________________ Gail gail@adventistforum.com And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17
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