Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" - unOFFICIAL ADVENTIST FORUM

Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.
And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with
– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.
Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message

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#41976 - 06/04/05 10:11 PM Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah"
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Read it here: Chapter 14 of Desire of Ages Based on John 1:19-51 _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#41977 - 06/04/05 11:08 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Quote: from Desire of Ages, page 136: "During the preceding months of the Baptist's ministry, many had refused to heed the call to repentance. Thus they had hardened their hearts and darkened their understanding. When Heaven bore testimony to Jesus at His baptism, they perceived it not. Eyes that had never been turned in faith to Him that is invisible beheld not the revelation of the glory of God; ears that had never listened to His voice heard not the words of witness. So it is now. Often the presence of Christ and the ministering angels is manifest in the assemblies of the people, and yet there are many who know it not. They discern nothing unusual. But to some the Saviour's presence is revealed. Peace and joy animate their hearts. They are comforted, encouraged, and blessed." So is this saying that repentance alone can prepare the way for experiencing the presence of God? What do you all think? _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#41978 - 06/04/05 11:14 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Quote: from Desire of Ages, page 138: "The words which the priests and rabbis so much desired to hear, that Jesus would now restore the kingdom to Israel, had not been spoken. For such a king they had been waiting and watching; such a king they were ready to receive. But one who sought to establish in their hearts a kingdom of righteousness and peace, they would not accept." The same principle holds sway even today. Some who call themselves Christians are looking for Christ to come as an earthly king or to use the power and name of Christ to establish an earthly kingdom they imagine will be based upon the precepts of God, etc. But in seeking to do so they will be ignoring the plainest teachings of Christ and the most basic commandment of Yahweh: Thou shalt not kill. By death decrees and murderous slaughter of warfare they push for their earthly kingdom. But the establishment in the heart of a kingdom of righteousness, peace, and love to all, even enemies, they will not accept. In fact, they even scoff at it and ridicule the notion, and ridicule the followers of Christ who believe in what He genuinely stood for. _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#41979 - 06/04/05 11:18 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Quote: from page 139: "It is contrition and faith and love that enable the soul to receive wisdom from heaven. Faith working by love is the key of knowledge, and everyone that loveth "knoweth God." 1 John 4:7." How do we become contrite? How do we receive faith? How are we filled with love? How do we translate these things from words on a page to living realities, from concepts into experience? _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#41980 - 06/28/05 07:08 AM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Registered: 03/03/05 Posts: 472 Loc: Northern California	Hello, Nico. I've been poring over this chapter recently. It has several concepts that really strike me as being important. I recently visited a web site where former Adventists routinely flush EGW and Advenitsm down the toilet. I keep reading this book and am so impressed. Maybe it was written by her secretaries, or plagarized, but this book is turning me around and waking me up to my faults and helping me to understand new realities. As far as contrition goes, I had to look it up in a dictionary. It means "sorrow for sin". I'm running out of time here, but I think contrition, faith, and love are a matter of "do it or die". Willingly, of course. I don't suppose that's much help to anyone, though.
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#41981 - 06/28/05 03:26 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Anonymous Unregistered	Quote: So is this saying that repentance alone can prepare the way for experiencing the presence of God? What do you all think? Hi Nico, in the context from which it was taken, it certainly appears to be saying that repentance alone can prepare the way for experiencing the presence of God. However, when you look at Paul's experience in Acts9:1-18, there was no repentance and God filled Paul with the Holy Spirit. I personally don’t think that repentance (even though it is important) is the deciding factor or key to experiencing the presence of God. I experienced the presence of God in my life long before I understood about repentance. I believe God meets us where we are at.
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#41982 - 06/28/05 03:39 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Anonymous Unregistered	Quote: How do we become contrite? How do we receive faith? How are we filled with love? How do we translate these things from words on a page to living realities, from concepts into experience? Nico, I really struggle with these issues and wish I had some answers. The things that keep coming to mind are "SURRENDER, STOP STRIVING, LET GO". The question for me then becomes "How do I do that?"
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#41983 - 07/01/05 02:50 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: ]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	I am so glad to see you back, Aliensanctuary. I missed you and your posts! _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#41984 - 07/01/05 03:05 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: alexys(chechii)]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Quote: *Beapeacemaker said:* However, when you look at Paul's experience in Acts9:1-18, there was no repentance and God filled Paul with the Holy Spirit. I personally don’t think that repentance (even though it is important) is the deciding factor or key to experiencing the presence of God. I experienced the presence of God in my life long before I understood about repentance. The Bible also says that it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance. This suggests that we have to have some personal experience of that goodness in order to experience repentance. Thank you for pointing out the example of Paul. I had a similar experience at age 16 when I first met the Lord. I had not "repented"; I had simply called on the "One true God" (whose Name at the time I did not know) to show me the truth. And He came upon me as mightily as He had Paul, and He did indeed show me. It was after that experience that I began the process of repenting, that is, turning away from what I knew to be sin and/or idols in my life. _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#41985 - 07/01/05 03:08 PM Re: Chapter 14: "We Have Found the Messiah" [Re: alexys(chechii)]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Quote: *Beapeacemaker said:* Quote: How do we become contrite? How do we receive faith? How are we filled with love? How do we translate these things from words on a page to living realities, from concepts into experience? Nico, I really struggle with these issues and wish I had some answers. The things that keep coming to mind are "SURRENDER, STOP STRIVING, LET GO". The question for me then becomes "How do I do that?" When I'm hit with all the "how to"s that I cannot answer, and seem to be at a dead end, I just pray simply that God will take control of my life and make it what He wants it to be. I have to just trust that He will, even though I don't see any evidence of it. _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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