[This post is perfectly acceptable--Michelle was afraid maybe it wasn't. Good questions she's asking; so what's a mother to do? -- NormF]

I am not a scientist, nor do I play one on t.v. But, since I have two sons who are both fascinated with dinosaurs (what boys aren't?), I've been faced with a dilemma--how do I explain them to the boys?

I see several options, none of which are totally satisfying.

1) standard evolutionary view (which I reject)

2) they are one of the results of "amalgamation of man and beast" and were not saved on the ark and were killed in the flood (the view I was raised with, but am unsure I totally accept).

3) they were created and representative beasts were saved on the ark (would they have fit?), but given the radical change in environment after the flood, they did not flourish but died out (some perhaps "hanging on" longer than others).

My boys and I have discussed different ways in which this could have happened and they are satisfied that I don't know the answers. It is difficult to buy books, because they usually talk in terms of millions of years, giant meteors, evolution from species to species, etc. Yet, I haven't seen any good books from a creationist perspective, either. They are usually very poorly written (what I've seen, anyway).

So, what are some of the theories from a creationist point of view? I pretty much know the evolutionary point of view, but am looking for viable alternatives, if you can help.

Thanks!

Michelle

Michelle,

I believe the dinosaurs were created beasts, although not in the form in which we are recovering their fossils.

We know that everything Abba Father created, He pronounced "good". Animals that killed (anathema to the source of all Life) and ate other animals (surely at that time a form of animal cannibalism... not the "natural order" we are taught today!)would not have been created by He Who is Life Eternal.

Also, Adam and Eve were much taller than we are today, and a 14 - 20 foot tall animal that didn't kill to live would have been appropriate before sin.

When sin entered the world, more happened than just humanity being corrupted. All things on this planet were corrupted. Death entered this world. Flowers began to wilt, grass to turn brown, mosquitos began to drink blood (the very source of Life, surely not something Abba Father created them to do!), and animals began to eat one another.

I think that the Adversary took great joy in corrupting the earth. I think he took special joy in corrupting beyond all recognition types of animals, insects, and plants that may have been Adam and Eve's special joys of study with their Creator and the angels.

I think that the fossils we find today, are the remnants of those animals, destroyed in the flood because in His Omniscience, Abba Father knew that mankind could not survive were these animals left alive to roam the earth and propagate. In His kindness, He allowed them to be utterly destroyed. I think this is true even of the herbivores, because Abba knew how far humanity would fall from the perfection that was Eden, how our stature would shrink, our eyesight would dim, our minds would degenerate, our strength would fail us, and animals of the size and power of even the herbivores would be more than our frailty could handle.

Perhaps in heaven we will understand and know what the originals were really like.

Michelle


Science will probably never answer the questions that you raise.

If this is true, than you answers will only come from philosophey. Whether you chose a Biblical philosophy, or some other is another question. In any case, the answers lie in philosophy.

I think the answers Clio gave are interesting, and may well be correct, but they might not be so useful for Michelle's specific dilemma! Kinda hard to explain that the dinosaurs they love so much were just demon-built monstrosities... (I know that's over-stating the description for effect!) Of course, tigers are very beautiful and fascinating creatures who are carnivores...

Michelle, there are plenty of other creatures that have become extinct, usually due to climate change or human activity. A few in the past couple of centuries are the dodo, moa, Tasmanian tiger and carrier pigeon (?) So it's not so surprising that creatures that had the quite special needs for nourishment, temperature and so on that the dinosaurs did have become extinct. If they were created, even quite recently, they could still have become extinct before much of recorded history (and leviathan references could be read as memories of them).

How strongly do you want to hold to a very young age of the earth in talking with the boys? Certainly references to millions of years are not in themselves references to evolution - creation itself could have happened much longer ago...

Finally, I don't really think boys the age of yours will be hugely disrupted in their thinking if a book or video gives one explanation and you give another - they're basically looking at the cool dinosaurs, not looking for detailed explanations!

Michelle,

I tried to deal with what we do know about dinosaurs in my Detective Zack book, Danger at Dinosaur Camp. It's for kids (especially boys) ages 7-12. You can find it at adventistbookcenter.com.

It's a fun story with an exciting mystery and it covers what the Bible says about dinosaurs as well as some of the best ideas of how they fit into the creation/flood story.

I hope it helps.

Jerry

Quote:

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carrier pigeon ?

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Nope, Passenger Pigeon.

Quote:

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The Passenger Pigeon is now extinct. Over hunting, the clearing of forests to make way for agriculture, and perhaps other factors doomed the species. The decline was well under way by the 1850’s.

The last nesting birds were reported in the Great Lakes region in the 1890’s. The last reported individuals in the wild were shot at Babcock, Wisconsin in 1899, and in Pike County, Ohio on March 24, 1900. Some individuals, however, remained in captivity.

The last Passenger Pigeon, named Martha, died alone at the Cincinnati Zoo at about 1:00 pm on September 1, 1914

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Jerry--reading your post was frightening--my boys are now old enough for Detective Zack books! Okay, now that I've gotten over THAT shock, maybe I'll check it out! Thanks for the heads up.



M

Bravus--the boys and I have discussed other animals' extinction and we realize that there are multiple reasons animals become extinct.

About the millions and billions of years--you aren't the parent of an Aspie (child with Aspergers syndrome). Everything is VERY black and white, right and wrong, fact and fiction. EVERYTHING every read, viewed, or heard IS remembered and WILL BE held against me!

As I have Aspie tendencies myself, I have to be careful what "battles" I pick and if they are worth the fight. Since I'm not a scientist and don't see the need for more than 5000 +/- years since creation in Genesis (though I grant the earth itself is probably much older, given that it already existed in Gen. 1:1), I don't feel that millions and billions of years are important enough to "fight" about.

Also, at this age, it's pretty hard to get very in-depth in any kind of study of dinosaurs without evolutionary statements. For very little kids, you might be able to get away with just looking at the cool dinosaur bones. But that doesn't work anymore. Any dinosaur book aimed at primary students is quite detailed in its view of the history of evolution of these beasts.

M

The whole dinosaur thing seems to be pivotal, or key, to me somehow. If we could figure out where they came from, when they existed, etc. it might settle some questions about the issues of origins.

I personally have a VERY hard time swallowing the amalgamation / destroyed in flood theory, which comes in part from the impossibility of selling it to those way better informed than myself. I've also heard some theories that I find totally implausible, such as that these were "normal" animals and scientists just threw the bones together wrong, etc.

I have an equally hard time with what evolution has to say about them (millions of years old, ruled the earth exclusively before there were humans or even mammals, birds, etc. as we know them) because it doesn't fit the picture I have of creation, and I do believe in creation. Although I do realize that "fitting my picture of creation" is not a scientific objective, of course.

I just plain don't know what to do with the dinos. I can't accept EITHER "side's" explanation. Help!

Nico--You and I are in the same boat. I found myself Googling last night after posting and finding some very interesting stories. (try something like creation + dinosaurs or flood + dinos) Some people think that there were/are some dinosaurs that survived even at least into the 1800s, if not presently, in various places in Europe and Africa. There is ancient artwork that looks much like different kind of dinos. And I always wondered about that huge flying creature spotted in Alaska several years ago--sounded to me like some kind of pterodactyl-like creature.

A possibly related question is--were dragons really some kind of dinos? Dragons are so fascinating--from Europe/the west, they are always thought of negatively. From China, they are the symbol of the emperor and of China itself--very good luck.

M