#78746 - 04/18/06 10:47 PM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: Lauralea]
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Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
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Quote:
Bevin, there are no fossils in rock predating Creation Week.
And I am to believe this just because you say so? And you accuse me of relying on my intellect!
We know the rocks are old because
- they contain radioactive activities that require long periods of time
- they contain huge bends, that can only have been done under enormous pressures and temperatures, and yet are cold - so they have had time to cool
- they have repeated patterns of erosion and creation
- they contain fossils in specific sequences
- they match up very long distances apart
- they contain magnetic patterns that show repeated major movements of the magnetic poles
- they contain meteor craters with wildly differing erosion levels
- the number and erosion of the craters help us estimate the ages
- they contain evidence of changes in tides and seasons
and, most important of all, the dates we get from these and other techniques can be reconciled with each other and are huge.
Like I said earlier, the short age creationists don't want to face the actual facts.
/Bevin
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#78747 - 04/19/06 12:06 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: ]
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Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 618
Loc: B,C.
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Hey David why not just figure out a simple question like..How and Why did the rattlesnake get it's fangs and venum? Ya I know I asked that before and you choose to ignore it. Do you think it represents massive re-creation and if so by whom and why or is it some form of evolution?
mel
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#78748 - 04/19/06 01:57 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15396
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
melvin mccarty said:
Hey David why not just figure out a simple question like..How and Why did the rattlesnake get it's fangs and venum? Ya I know I asked that before and you choose to ignore it. Do you think it represents massive re-creation and if so by whom and why or is it some form of evolution?
mel
Here's a given: Nothing evil...nothing that can cause death comes from God. Whatever happened at the "fall" set into motion what we have now.
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#78749 - 04/19/06 02:07 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: ]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15396
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Quote:
Nicodema said:... The whole loathesome oppressive folly of SINFUL SELFISH humans attempting to lord themselves over other humans, period. Robert covered it nicely by quoting Matt 20:25-26
Here's Jack's view of Romans 13...for what it's worth:
In World War II, there was a movement in Germany during Hitler’s time called “The German Christians.” That’s what they called themselves. They taught and insisted that every Christian must give absolute obedience to the governing authority. Of course, there were other Christians who fought against that idea. But these German Christians even quoted from Martin Luther. This is what Luther said (and he was trying to counteract the other camp): “Christians should not refuse under the pretext of religion to obey men, especially evil ones.”
So here comes the question: Is Paul teaching in Romans 13 that a Christian must give absolute obedience to the governing authority? This is an important question because one day this country is going to make Sunday laws and enforce them. I have a suspicion that they will use Romans 13:1 to hammer you on the head. So it is important that we understand what Paul is saying.
Let’s look, first of all, at the context of this passage. Please remember that, when Paul wrote that statement to the Roman Christians, he was writing to Christians whose government was anti-Christian. In fact, persecution had not yet really begun, but later on it was this government that martyred the Christians. But why then did Paul make this statement? Why did he say, “You Christians must be subject to the governing authority”?
He made a statement in Romans 12:2 which he knew could be misunderstood. The statement is that, “We must not be conformed to the world”:
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing, and perfect will.
Paul realized that statement could be misunderstood. He realized that the Christians in Rome would say, “Since we don’t belong to the world and we are not to conform to the world, we don’t have to obey the governments of this world. And we don’t have to pay tax.”
Wouldn’t that be wonderful? So Paul is trying to make it clear. But I want you to know in which context he makes that statement because we need to read that admonition in the context in which he is saying it.
Paul is not discussing the Christian attitude towards governors and governments in every aspect, in this passage, but in a specific area, the area of law and order. What Paul is saying here is that, because of the sinful human world in which we live, it is essential that God puts restrictions and begins to curb evil. Because if God did not put restrictions, we would have wiped ourselves out long ago. Let me give you an example.
Over the period of just a few months, we in America faced two major disasters: Hurricane Hugo and an earthquake in San Francisco [California]. In both cases, the government sent in soldiers and the police force was increased. Why? Because of what people would do. They would take advantage of the situation and there would be looting. That is sinful nature in man. What Paul is saying here is that God had ordained civil authorities to keep this world in law and order. In other words, to curb crime. Can you imagine what would happen to a country without civil authority? We faced that in Uganda for a while and, I’ll tell you, it was anarchy. Even the worst government is better than no government at all. But what Paul is saying is in verse two onward. Romans 13:2-4:
Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. [Then he explains what he meant.] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
In other words, as soon as this world became sinful, God ordained governments. He ordained civil authorities to restrict the evil practices of sinful man.
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#78751 - 04/19/06 03:38 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: Mandy]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 7422
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Had you seen Adam before the sun went down on that Friday, how old would you have thought he was?
Gerry
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#78752 - 04/19/06 03:45 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: ]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 7422
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Quote:
Nicodema said:
Quote:
Gerry Cabalo said:
What abominations are you referring to?
Name it. The whole loathesome oppressive folly of SINFUL SELFISH humans attempting to lord themselves over other humans, period. Robert covered it nicely by quoting Matt 20:25-26
Quote:
Egomaniacal or not, human governments/authorities are divinely ordained, Rom 13:1.
No they are not. That notion is also of human invention. Paul simply didn't want the fledgling church to fall into disrepute as anarchists and detract from the real purpose, message, mission, etc. We know slavery is wrong yet Paul advised slaves of his day to be good & obedient for their masters as a "witness" -- the government chestnut is no different than this.
WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN.
If that was merely Paul's invention, then what makes you think that Peter's statement that you put in caps was not just his on invention also?
While I believe that governments are divinely ordained, I have no problem disobeying them when they ask me to violate my conscience.
Gerry
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#78753 - 04/19/06 04:04 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: TheLittleGiraffe]
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Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
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Quote:
Had you seen Adam before the sun went down on that Friday, how old would you have thought he was?
Depends. Is he sitting contemplating a dinosaur skeleton at the bottom of a cliff made of billions of dead sea shell remains?
/Bevin
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#78754 - 04/19/06 11:03 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: Mandy]
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Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 22
Loc: California
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Quote:
bevin said:
Quote:
that will essentially deal with all of the evidence without changing the basics of those positions
There is lots of possible evidence that could persuade me that the Genesis account is wrong.
/Bevin
Was that a Freudian slip? 
I suspect you have already determined in your mind that the Genesis account is wrong despite all your posturing to the contrary that you have an open mind.
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#78755 - 04/19/06 11:10 AM
Re: Why Creationism Is Wrong and Evolution is Right
[Re: Mandy]
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Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 22
Loc: California
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Quote:
bevin said:
Quote:
Bevin, there are no fossils in rock predating Creation Week.
And I am to believe this just because you say so? And you accuse me of relying on my intellect!
We know the rocks are old because
- they contain radioactive activities that require long periods of time
- they contain huge bends, that can only have been done under enormous pressures and temperatures, and yet are cold - so they have had time to cool
- they have repeated patterns of erosion and creation
- they contain fossils in specific sequences
- they match up very long distances apart
- they contain magnetic patterns that show repeated major movements of the magnetic poles
- they contain meteor craters with wildly differing erosion levels
- the number and erosion of the craters help us estimate the ages
- they contain evidence of changes in tides and seasons
and, most important of all, the dates we get from these and other techniques can be reconciled with each other and are huge.
Like I said earlier, the short age creationists don't want to face the actual facts.
/Bevin
Source or reference please. Or are we supposed to believe this just because you say so? 
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