How do we appoach an unbelieving world with the gospel?

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness" (1 Cor. 1:18) "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (ibid 2:14)

An unbelieving culture will feel no need for Christ until they grasp that "the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23). They will not feel a need for a Savior until they understand that sin and death are connected. This connection is found in Genesis 2:19 "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

In decades past we have preached to the unchurched in a society that believed in the Bible and creation. Today we find ourselves increasingly in a society that is not only unchurched but athiestic and has no real knowledge of God or the creation story. Many believe that death happened before sin and make no connection between the two. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Rom. 10:13, 14)

Shane, is this thread in the right forum? Would seem more apropriate for the 'theology' forum. I understand this forum to focus on scientific issues in regard to origins.

The subtitle of this forum is:
"Where do we come from? Creation, evolution and other issues related to the origins of life and the universe"

In the thread "The Basics - Scope of Discussion" it says, “It must have something to do with Origins. The focus may be broad or narrow.”

This section dried up and was removed from Club Adventist. It is now trying to reestablish itself. I have a lot of respect for our brother Bravus and am trying to help stimulate some activity here - as a do with a few other sections.

My approach to the subject is a mix of theology and science, better classified as philosophy of science. So it is more of a broad approach than a narrow one that would fit nicely into an accepted meaning of science.

The Adventist church does deal with this issue. The Voice of Prophecy has been somewhat aggressive in creation science evangelism. It Is Written has had numours episodes that deal with creation and evolution. Some, like me, think we need to be even more aggressive. Yet most in the church would not be able or willing to discuss the topic of orgins without being able to go outside the framework of accepted science.

To tie it in good. The issue here is about death and ORGINS.

If we believe in the literal seven-day creation then we beleive that sin came before death.

If we believe in a long-term creation that God used the principles of evolution to create the earth and life on it over millions of years, then death came before sin.

To the unbeliving it is FOOLISHNESS to believe that sin came before death. But to the believing Christian we trust the Bible when it claims that sin entered the world through one man.

So while this topic is not based on a scientific premis, it is about orgins. I am not asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? I am asking a much more important question about orgins. Which came first, sin or death?

Honestly, Shane, after reading your three posts, it sounds like this thread belongs in the 'Bible and Theology' forum rather than Origins. I would hope that the Origins threads may be serious, solid, in-depth scientific discussions. We gotta have something like that here. Otherwise, the ol' brain may atrify!

Well, the "Scope of Discussion" thread actually says this:

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This does include forays into humor, relative to the forum's scope. In fact, entire humor threads are quite welcome. The Good Book says "a merry heart doeth good like a medicine." Lightening up at times is a necessary relief among heavy matters.

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So not only can the threads here be more theologically based than scientifically based, they can also be more humorous than serious. It seems they just need to be related to the subject of orgins. "Which came first, death or sin?" I think qualifies.

Putting on my moderator hat for just a second, I don't think this thread falls outside the scope of the Origins forum. The only reason it might be better off elsewhere is to find a broader readership/broader participation, but Shane has put it where he wants it and that's fair enough.

I will admit my original post in this thread may not have expressed my thoughts so clearly.

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In decades past we have preached to the unchurched in a society that believed in the Bible and creation. Today we find ourselves increasingly in a society that is not only unchurched but athiestic and has no real knowledge of God or the creation story. Many believe that death happened before sin and make no connection between the two.

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Many ask, 'what difference does it make?' If God created the earth in six days or sixty million years. What difference does it make?

This strikes right at the core for any discussion about orgins. Why discuss orgins? What relevance does it have to the church? How does it impact our relationship with Christ? How does it impact our witness to others? How does it impact our evangelistic outreach?

From my prespective, it all comes down to sin and death. Did sin cause death? If death existed before the fall, will there be death in heaven? Will there be death in the New Earth? Did Christ conquer death? These are all questions that the subject of orgins is going to raise.

Perhaps salvation and eternal life require consciousness (this actually gets back to the old 'will my dog be in heaven?' discussion). In that case, we could assume that animals and pre-humans who died died forever - it is only humans who have (or, a better way to say it from an Adventist perspective) are souls, and therefore the potential for salvation or damnation. So the Genesis account becomes the story of the rise of the ability to choose good or evil, symbolised by the tree, and the story of the first humans' choice and its consequences.

This is a speculative approach, not something I'm saying I believe, but it is one way of thinking about the origin of sin and death within a theistic evolutionary framework. That is, the death that sin introduced was separation from God and the loss of the promise of translation, transformation and immortality that God offered the first humans.

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Did sin cause death?

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Like most of the questions in this general area, this question needs a better definition.

As I asked, in another topic

1) Can non-animate objects sin?
2) Can animals sin?

Now we have to ask another question.

What is death? For example,
1) can a virus die?
2) can an individual cell die?
3) can a leaf die?
4) can a bacteria?
5) can a colony of bacteria?
6) can a fungus?
7) can an ant?

/Bevin