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The other problem is, if God knows the end from the beginning, why is God giving prophecies that will not come true? And if one is going to have a conditional prophecy, why not prophecy the outcome of both conditions?

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What I read in both the Bible and Ellen White are limited views of history that are attempts to fit preconcieved ideas about God and the world into an authorative text of sorts. In all cases that I have examined it is more complex than anyone understands. Written accounts are limited by the nature of human logic and its expression and its assumptions.--Richard

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Richard, I have come to admire your insights. Unfortunetely you seem to be a brokenhearted-fundamentalist, finding your foothold crumbeling. You take these pieces of information and tend to place them in a context of doubt. If only you could place the exact same facts in a context of faith, you would be a tremendous evangelist.

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I have never seen this reference (brokenhearted-fundamentalist) applied to me, but I will have to take a look at it. It may have some truth to it. Though, I have not held to fundamental or historic adventism since I was 17. I am now over a quarter century past that time, thank goodness!

I do have faith in what I experience both in my inner and outer life. I have faith that I have the ability to grow and understand in many more ways than intellectually.

What I do doubt and may be disappointed in is the ability of the Bible to be the final authority about God. I believe that God is the final authority and if I believe that God and His spirit are present in the world, then that is where I am going to find the best information about God.

I am disappointed in the fact that proof texts are not proof. It is so much more secure to see the Bible as some kind of magical code book about God. But that disappointment is long gone. I am glad that life is so much more than that and the mystery of God really never ends. The point at which I think I have it figured out, is the point that I stop living both intellectually and spiritually.

So, yes I doubt very much that anyone really has a handle on the God, spirituality, where we are going, morality, and all the various points where we might have fear.

What I have learned is that it is good to closely, and honestly examine all of our ideas.

In doing that I have learned that the issues are too complex to simply codify in words. It requires an active spiritual connection to provide "answers" for each moment. And to hear these "answers" one has to let go of all assumptions about what God is going or not going to do. And that is pretty frightening for most people and understandably so.

I don't see this insight in Ellen White's work. I see a lot of fear and paranoia. Some of those same ideas can be presented in the Bible, but often that is more the interpreters or translators spin. And, recently, I have come to believe, the spin provided by those who selected which books should be in the Bible.

When someone tells the truth, in the past, it has to be somehow blessed by a particular "Biblical" view. This has been presented as a safeguard. It has not worked as any kind of safeguard in my observation. In most cases, it really as acted as a justification for all kinds of manipulation and fear.

When I experience truth it is most powerful when it resonates with things that have been just below my consciousness. Things that I have known on an intuitive level, but have not been able to give words to. When someone says these types of truths in fresh ways that awaken things that provide the fruit that I look and long for.

Peace, joy, the love of living, and all the abundance that I believe is the true evidence that someone is living in truth. I do believe in the idea that by the fruit of any idea, one may know.

Richard