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And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with
– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.
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#97756 - 10/03/06 03:33 AM It Is Written
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16948
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
As I was watching It Is Written this evening I caught at the end that they have a line instructing us "Do Not Duplicate". I like to record Adventist programs and share them with non-believers and It Is Written is a good one, but I guess that is not a form of evangelism they approve of.
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#97882 - 10/04/06 11:55 PM Re: It Is Written [Re: Shane]
Naomi Offline


Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 7196
Loc: This Side of Calvary
I amy be wrong, but I think the copyright laws are the same for IIW as for any other organization who produces expensive programming.

Certainly I can not speak for It Is Written, but I would think that it inappropriate to copy anyone's work without their permission.

If you contact them I am certain that they have materials available for a nominal fee which can be used for evangelistic efforts
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#97885 - 10/05/06 01:36 AM Re: It Is Written [Re: Naomi]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16948
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
It isn't an issue of the law unless those producing the programming want it to be. There are some ministries that encourage listeners to copy their material and distribute it - even though they have the legal right to protect it.

So it comes down to whether or not the ministry can afford to allow others to record and distribute their programs. In the interest of spreading the gospel, they certainly would want that done. However if a large portion of their funding comes from selling recorded programming, they may not be able to afford to encourage such.

In my circumstance, my in-laws in Central America do not have access to Adventist Television. They live outside the satellite footprint so even if we bought them a dish, they couldn't recieve it. So we record Adventist programs and send them to them.

I also like to record programs and give them to people I work with that are not believers.

I have emailed It Is Written about the issue. If they do not approve of this, we simply will not include them in the programming we record.


Edited by Shane (10/05/06 02:08 AM)
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#97889 - 10/05/06 03:03 AM Re: It Is Written [Re: Naomi]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16948
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Quote:
If you contact them I am certain that they have materials available for a nominal fee which can be used for evangelistic efforts


Just to give an idea of the nominal fee, it is between $10 and $20 because it is really a donation in exchange for a 50¢ plastic disc. That's ok, these ministries need donations to put the gospel out there. We should be donating to them if we are watching them - at least a little something.

I have a nonAdventist sister that is battling cancer. I try and record about three Adventist programs each week for her. That means I would pay a "nominal" fee of $30/week or $120/month.

Now I like to send my in-laws 4 or 5 programs per week. That comes out to $50/week of $200/month.

Now if I record a couple for my secretary, a subcontrator and a superintedent I am up to another $50 or $200/month.

So in total, for copying some Adventist programs off TV and sending them to freinds and family, my "nominal" fee would be about $500/month.

The media ministry is an awesome force for the gospel. Ministries have the right to prohibit people from copying their programs - no doubt. If they choose to excersize that right, they will obviously not reach as many people.
_________________________
I reserve the humble right to be wrong.

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#97891 - 10/05/06 03:37 AM Re: It Is Written [Re: Shane]
bevin Offline


Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
Shane, you should be aware that under USA copyright laws, all created material is "born" copyright, and does not need to have an explicit statement.

Unless it actually says that you are free to copy, you should assume that it is protected by copyright.

Copying for the purpose of time-shifting for your own viewing has been ruled legal.

/Bevin

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#97894 - 10/05/06 04:01 AM Re: It Is Written [Re: bevin]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16948
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Yes, I am aware of that. If I go to Sears or Kmart and pay for my picture to be taken, I still don't own the copyright because I didn't take the picture (even though I paid for it).

I have emailed many ministries and the overwelming response is to feel free to copy their programs and distribute them like the leaves of autumn. In fact, I have never yet been told by a ministry not to record their programs and share them with family and friends. "It Is Written" has yet to respond to my email.

If the objective is to make money - like Hollywood studios - of course they wouldn't want to allow that. If their objective is to spread the gospel, they are going to want to encourage it.


Edited by Shane (10/05/06 04:04 AM)
_________________________
I reserve the humble right to be wrong.

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#97919 - 10/05/06 05:56 PM Re: It Is Written [Re: Shane]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16948
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
This is the response I got from an Adventist network, I will not name which one since I do not have permission to do so.

My email to them:

Quote:
Can you tell me if copyright laws allow me to record a religious program to share with a friend of family member? I have both that do not have access to ##### and enjoy your programming.


Thier response:

Quote:
It is fine to record a program to share with others. You just can not sell the programs for profit.

Thank you for watching.

God Bless.
_________________________
I reserve the humble right to be wrong.

Link > Shane's Page - update in progress

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#97926 - 10/05/06 07:35 PM Re: It Is Written [Re: Shane]
Naomi Offline


Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 7196
Loc: This Side of Calvary
Hey Shane,

I am sure that is a burden from your mind. Things usually work out well but it's always good to have clarification and permission

Naomi
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Aspire to inspire before you expire!

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#97929 - 10/05/06 09:57 PM Re: It Is Written [Re: Shane]
bevin Offline


Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
Great! Exactly what one would hope their attitude would be!

/Bevin

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#97932 - 10/05/06 11:01 PM Re: It Is Written [Re: Naomi]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16948
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Quote:
I am sure that is a burden from your mind.


Actually I was just going to quit recording IIW and continue with the others that don't have a problem with it. And I still will quit recording IIW if they answer my email by telling me such.

These ministries are for the most part, viewer supported. Thus they want as many viewers as they can get. Logic would lead one to believe then, it would be in their best interest for viewers to record their programs and circulate them to others and thus create more viewers. More viewers would mean more support - logically.

Legally they could try and enforce their copyright and a judge may or may not side with them. The way it was explianed to me is that it is an issue of "fair use". This would really fall onto how much of their revenue is from viewer support and how much is from selling copies of episodes. If they can show that a significant portion of their revenue comes from selling copies and that those making unauthorized copies are significantly impacting those revenues, then a judge is likely to provide them copyright protection. However if the portion of their revenues that comes from selling copies is insignificant or it is found that those making unautorized copies are not significantly impacting the revenues, the judge would likely rule that such unauthorized copies fall under "fair use".

On top of that issue is the nonprofit status of both the broadcaster and the one making copies. In many cases nonprofit organizaations are allowed to use copyrighted material and pay only a small fraction of what others would have to pay. A classic example of this are Christian radio stations that pay artists only a fraction of the royalty the same artist recieves from a commercial-profit radio station playing the same songs.

The Supreme Court used religious programming as one type of programming that may welcome the practice of individuals recording their programs in their famous Sony v. Universal Studios ruling.

Quote:
If there are millions of owners of VTR's who make copies of televised sports events, religious broadcasts, and educational programs such as Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, and if the proprietors of those programs welcome the practice, the business of supplying the equipment that makes such copying feasible should not be stifled simply because the equipment is used by some individuals to make unauthorized reproductions of respondents' works.
_________________________
I reserve the humble right to be wrong.

Link > Shane's Page - update in progress

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